Our Relationship with Coming Out Ft Robin from Coming Out Late

Published by The Manic Pixie Weirdo Podcast

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What's up, weirdos? Heyo, me shit. I got me a little something. Rolled the lights alone. We're about to chop it up with Abigail on a manic pixie weirdo Pocket, a safe space for weirdos of all shapes, sizes, colors, and creeds to relax and speak their piece. So grab a glass of wine and grass the chief as I get off the mic so the main weirdo can speak. Peace. Peace. God.

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What is up, weirdoes? You're listening to the manapixy weirdo. I'm Abigail, your host, and this is the podcast where we talk about all the different kinds of relationships that we can have in our lives. And this week, we are joined by the lovely Robin. Say hi and then tell us a little bit about yourself and where we can find you.

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Hello. Hello, everybody. I am Robin from the hood. From your hood. Yeah. You can find me on Instagram at lateblooming. Lesbian. You can find me on Twitter at coming out later. And I also host and create a podcast called Coming Out Late, and that will give you some idea of who I am. I'm a 61 year old woman who, at the age of 54, had an AHA moment walking through my garage one day and just suddenly went, oh, my God, I'm gay. And I had lived in a heterosexual life my entire life. I was married to a man at the time, 28 years, two daughters, and I didn't see that coming. I'll tell you, I've really dedicated my life right now to my podcast, Coming Out Late, as well as support groups for other women, coming Out Late also. And there are thousands of women coming out later in life. It's amazing.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(99937) )}

Yeah. Which is one of the reasons why I really wanted to talk to you. One of the reasons why we're here is because we are here to talk about coming out and coming out late. So I guess let's just kind of start from the beginning. What was that like for you when you realized this? Were you shocked? Were you scared? What was that like?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(118960) )}

Yeah, it was pretty crazy, because in general, looking back and all of us who come out late, hindsight is 2020. We can look back and say, okay. But for me, I think it was a ten year span of an awakening. Somewhere around the age of 44, 45, I think I started getting hints and clues from the universe, little taps on the head here and there. And I was so steeped in heteronormativity that I just didn't really pay attention until the taps on the head and the hints and clues around me became so incredibly, they were just impossible to ignore. And it was driving me crazy inside thinking, why am I chasing? Not chasing. Whoa. Why am I following women up and down the aisles of Staples and Home Depot and wherever? I didn't understand what my infatuation was suddenly with women. So, yeah, I did a little bit of unconventional research in March of 2015, and then it still took until the end of May of 2015 before I suddenly, literally out of nowhere, had this, like, holy shit, I'm gay. And for, like, a nanosecond, I think I panicked. And then I just laughed. I don't know why. I just was like, okay, universe, this is what you're dealing with. It's just hard to believe. And there are a lot of women. Like I said, I dedicate, really, my time and my work is all about helping and supporting women who are navigating the same journey that I navigated. And many of us fall into two camps, really had no clue, and suddenly woke up one day or had always known that they were gay or had attraction to women and really stepped it down because of either for religious reasons or their parents or whatever. They just knew that they were told society had really bombarded them with messages that being gay was not okay and that they just stuffed it down until they couldn't stuff it down anymore. And that's what I find with most of us, that we just can't stuff it down anymore. Once that cork is out of the bottle, the genie is out, forget it. There's no putting her back in.

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{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(260512) )}

For some weird reason, I wasn't scared, to answer your question. I don't know why.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(265387) )}

Well, that's good, though. I feel like that panic, that nanosecond that you said about panic. Yeah, I could see that. And then just sort of being like, well, I guess this is it. This is what we're doing. This is how it is. Were you shocked at all, or what were some of those signs that you kept having from the universe?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(294027) )}

Well, they started off really subtle. Like I said, ten years prior to my AHA moment, I would notice a woman. And many women that I've been surrounded by say that they've always and have since come out late, have said, Well, I've always noticed women, and I cannot say that I did, but I started to. I just started noticing women and thinking, she's attractive. And these experiences just became more frequent and louder and to the point where I had physical therapy. I had an accident off of a boat, and I had physical therapy, and I ended up having a crush on my physical therapist and still did not put two and two together. I just couldn't understand why I needed to be around her and with her a lot, we tend to infatuate. And then concurrently with this, I have been married 28 years when I had my AHA moment, and about halfway through that, our marriage really wasn't doing great, and it continued to deteriorate over those 14 years. And then it was during those ten years that I was starting to notice things. So I don't know which came first, the chicken or the egg, whether my awakening was coming about and then I just knew that I couldn't stay in the marriage. But it was not a happy place to be in my marriage. So maybe that was my subconscious saying, hey, now's the time. Now is the time that it's safe to come out. I don't know, it's pretty crazy. But it did get to a point where I literally was following women up and down, dials and staples, and it was just crazy. I didn't understand it. And I was kind of crushing on women here and there. What is that about? You know? And I didn't call it a crush then. I just knew that I had to be around certain people all the time and it just wasn't making any sense to me.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(413362) )}

Yeah, I remember when I first had my very first kind of awakening with that. I was very scared. I had no idea what was going on. And I was like, but I'm sort of somebody who throws caution to the wind and is just like, we're just going to run headfirst into this and see what happens. I don't necessarily recommend doing that.

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Your time kind of a thing.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(443587) )}

I think my reaction would have been way different if I was in a very happy, fulfilling marriage. I think I would have maybe been more panicked. I'm like, oh, my God. What do I do now? But I guess maybe I saw this as my awakening to my spiritual, to my sexuality was like my ticket out. Somehow it gave me this was it like, relief? I think it was in a really weird way, very unexpected way, that I just saw this as like maybe my sexuality percolating to the top, gave me the strength I needed to leave a bad marriage, which is bizarre. I'm just very thankful.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(490087) )}

Oh, yeah. But I can only imagine what that must have been like to just the cascade of emotions with the marriage and then just like everything sort of like all kind of hitting you at once kind of thing.

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It's really, really intense. And that's why it's really been a blessing to me that I'm able to help other women that are going through this journey. And it looks so different for all of us. And we all have different backgrounds, whether they be religious backgrounds or maybe they're best friends with their husbands and they suddenly wake up and realize they're gay or they've known it all along. And I just can't keep it in the genie in the bottle anymore. There are so many different ways that we all end up at the same place, which is, oh my gosh, I'm either bisexual, I'm gay, I'm pansexual, I'm lesbian, whatever. And that's the other really neat thing, is that women are coming out not really knowing how to label themselves. And so we talk a lot about not needing a label. Just lean into how you're feeling.

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Oh, yeah. Well, that for me was like the real struggle was the label was. I felt like I had to have a label of some kind. And so like in the beginning it was like, well I guess I'm gay. I guess that's my label. It's like I'm a lesbian. Turns out that's a no. But I'm also not necessarily like bisexual either and it turns out that it really doesn't matter to me. And so pansexual is really more like the way that I view myself because I view it more as like people and I'm just attracted to people. That's probably what was your journey with that?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(602887) )}

Well, you know, it's interesting. So when I came out to myself, I just assumed that I was only attracted to women and suddenly it was like overnight like a light switch that I was not attracted to men anymore. It had been my marital issues also did not I guess as a result of the marital issues, sex was really not a part of our marriage anymore. And so I guess for me I just assumed I was a lesbian. I didn't really know this was all brand new to me. I didn't know there were other choices. At the time, I never really liked the word lesbian because of the way society had, I guess, sort of brainwashed us into thinking that being gay or lesbian is bad. And I didn't really like I think I grew up not liking the word. So, you know, I just knew that I was attracted to women and I had to figure that out. And one of the ways I did that was in March of 2015, I actually went to my supermarket and got a gift card, like a Visa gift card. And with that gift card I then went over to Staples and I bought a burner phone. And with the burner phone I then joined a dating app and I clicked on woman liking women or whatever it is that they have and I still didn't get it. Like, oh my gosh, that could be me, women liking women. And within the first day I must have met eight out of the ten women that were willing to converse with me. They were all women who had left their husbands and had come out late in life. And I was like, oh my God, this is a thing. Because we all feel really alone initially when we go through this we think, holy shit, like there's got to be no one else in the world that is feeling this way suddenly in mean, I had one woman in my support group who came out at 74 years old and I know, right? So when I realized that this was a thing, I was like, wow, okay, so what does this mean now? And then it was two months later where I finally put all the dots together subconsciously and had my AHA moment. And from there it was just a crash course and I kept it a secret. I didn't even tell my best friends. And most of my friends didn't even know that my marriage was as bad as it was either. So here I am in May of 2015, and by September, I had filed for divorce. But it was rough because you really do feel all alone, like, you feel like an alien. That is like, what is wrong with me? What has just happened? And how did I not know this about myself? So it's really tumultuous. It's really a zigzag. There's a lot to learn, you know, there's the ins and outs of the whole gay and queer world. There is language to learn, lingo, and there's just so much. And here's the interesting thing, is women had asked me, like, well, how did you know you were 100% sure that you were gay, having never been intimate with a woman? And I'll tell you, I just knew. I just knew. Granted, it was a ten year percolating. It was marinating for ten years in me. So I think when I find finally had my AHA moment, it was just so obvious to me that I didn't need to have an intimate moment with a woman to know that I like women. It was bizarre. And many other women have confirmed that on their journey as well. And it was a very, very wicked, tumultuous, horrible divorce that lasted almost three years. It was really horrible. But all I wanted was to be free. I wanted to be free of that marriage even before I knew I was gay. And then once I found out I was gay, I was like, this is what's given me the strength to just get through this. And I've never felt freer or happier in my whole life.

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Oh, my gosh. Yay.

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I know. It's just been amazing. It's been amazing. And I've met so many cool people like you and all the women in my support group and people that I interview on my podcast. It's just incredible. The journey is incredible. And the relief that these people feel to be in a zoom room talking to each other about these very vulnerable, private realizations about ourselves and just feeling we're brought to tears over the fact that we have each other to talk to.

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Yeah, well, I can't imagine when I was going through it, for me, it was very shocking at first, but then it was like, the reason that I kind of felt I began to feel more comfortable. And that was one of the ways that I knew that I was kind of, like, on the right path here with my sexuality. I began to feel more comfortable with this part of myself once I kind of got over that initial shock and anxiety and all the hoopla plot kind of thing. Yeah, but that safe space is really comforting, and it just helps a lot. How are you able to cultivate that? And what have you done? What have you found that helps to create those safe spaces.

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Well, when I came out, it was about seven years ago, and there were no podcasts or not that I knew of. There were no private groups or Zooms or many Facebook groups either around then. And I was very lucky that somehow I found out about trying to remember. I think it was okay. Somehow I found out about another podcast that was one of the first on the scene and it was about coming out late. And the two co hosts of that podcast were also late bloomers. And in their podcast they mentioned a private group called the Bloomer Society and that they had they were on Mighty Networks or something. They now have gone to like a smaller private group. So I joined this Bloomer Society and not knowing anybody, and once a week we got together on Zoom and just talked to each other and that group has formed and stayed friends. And I actually met actually she's now an ex girlfriend, but I met a woman in Bloomers who I dated for a while and I just realized, wow, we need more of this. And that's when actually it was a year ago, October 11, that I started my podcast on National Coming Out Day. I aired my podcast and then started a Facebook group and just thought, well, maybe if I build it, they will come. And my God, I have over 3000 people in my Facebook group. And I've started out with one support group a week that was called Women Helping Women. And then I added one in the evening called Women Loving Women. And then somebody said, hey, we really need a bisexual group. So I have a group called bisexually Speaking, which we really don't. You don't have to be bisexual to be in, anybody can come. And then the last one I just added, it's brand new called 50 plus and Fabulous and it's for women who are 50 and over and then in the works, which is probably going to be launched later this month, I have a support group that I'm going to be calling Helping Him Heal. And it's for all the guys of the women who have come out late who, you know, are not angry and pissed off, but just really need some support in understanding how could their wife or their girlfriend or sister or mother have gone through this. So I'm going to probably launch a support group for the guys as well. And it's just grown. I mean, I'm still amazed at the number of women who are coming out late and still coming out late. It's just amazing. I have a hundred women a week who join my Facebook group that are yes, 100 women a week. Wow. And we range in age from late twenty s to, like I said, mid and upper 70s. It's crazy.

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Oh, wow, that's amazing though. Like, congratulations. That's awesome.

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Yeah, it's very heartwarming. It's so heartwarming because it's so appreciated. It really is.

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Yeah. So I have to ask because this is sort of like personal on my end, did you ever have any resentment, like a little bit, like even just a little bit of resentment that it happened kind of late for you?

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You know, it's interesting, I have not personally, but a lot of women have. Like, a lot of women in my support group, like, look at all the time that I lost. I could have been dating women 20 years ago or whatever. There are a lot of women that I actually try help. I help them to get over their resentment and their anger that this didn't happen sooner. I mean, I was freaking 54 years old when I came out. I had my AHA moment. But the way I look at it is, thank goodness I came out when I did. I'm just so glad I had that opportunity and knock wood, I'm healthy and happy and, yeah, I'm still kicking. So I don't know, what part of my life in my past would I take away? I wouldn't have had my children if I weren't married. And my 28 year marriage was not all bad. The last 14 were rough and went downhill. But what part of my life would I remove and replace? I am who I am today because of that path that I walked and the people that I've met and the people that I've loved. And so I don't personally and I try to help the women in my support groups and on my podcast to try to just embrace the here and now, be grateful today that you figured it out and move forward and try not to look in the rearview mirror too much.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1203487) )}

Yeah, that's really good advice, actually. No, much easier said than done, I would say. Okay. Do you have like, a favorite part about this part of your life right now and what have you learned about yourself during this, like, whole thing?

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Well, those are two really good questions. Favorite part, what have I learned? The things that I have learned was that I did definitely grow up as a homophobe. I was a bisexual foe or whatever, and I was a transphobe. I mean, I grew up a foe, and in this process, I have opened my eyes, my arms, and my heart to all the different people in the world, and that's why I have them on my podcast too. I had a transgender woman on my podcast. I started this extra support group called bisexually Speaking because I used to feel the bisexual subset of the LGBTQ community is so misunderstood. And really the sad thing is and I never realized that they don't feel like they belong in the hetero world and they don't feel like they belong in the queer world. And it's like, wow, I never thought about that. And I had all the same kind of prejudices that they feel and that they describe. I felt and thought and so I'm just trying to be a better human being every day. And learning that I'm queer and living in the queer world has exposed me to such great people and it's forcing me, even though I want to, to really open my eyes and open my heart and just learn that we're all just people and it's all about love and that's about it. So I'm learning that one of the favorite things. Like, what are some of the favorite things? There's so many things about coming out. Like, first of all, I just feel so free. I just feel so free to be me. And I really don't give a shit to what people think, I really don't. And I'm very out and very open and I would say one of the most shocking things, and I thought it was just me at first, but all the women who come out late confirm this, that no matter what age you are, when you come out, you feel like a 14 year old boy going to puberty. Like, suddenly your libido wakes up and you're just like, oh my gosh, it's the most bizarre thing. It's crazy. So that's been fun.

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Oh, yeah.

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One of my favorite things and just I don't know, it's just man, I mean, at 54, I didn't know. I thought I was done. I've lived, not done dying, like I should be dead, but I thought I had seen it all in my life. I've had a lot of different triggering experiences and losses and a lot of not great things go on in my life. And I thought, well, I've seen it all, I've done it all. And now a lot of women are like, well, what else don't I know about myself? And I have wondered what else could possibly be on the horizon that I'm not expecting or realizing. But it's just been a real for me personally. It's been a great journey. It's made me be a more open, flexible person, that's for sure. It's just been cool.

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Yeah. Are you excited to see what happens?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1428445) )}

Yeah, I've dated a lot of women. I've had my heart broken every time, you know, it's hard. Relationships with women are very, very intense because we are very emotional people and we connect very hard. We connect really, really hard and you become best friends. And so when that relationship ends, it's really hard and almost impossible to remain best friends. So you lose a lot. You really lose a lot. But I really tried to learn something from every relationship. I've been in a ton of therapy. I'm currently in AA and I've never been shy about that. I've been in codependence anonymous. I'm in every kind of anonymous program you can think of. And I just try to learn from every experience, even though it breaks my heart. And there's days I cry. You know, I just know that that happened to me not to me. It happened for me at a time in my life that I needed to learn something and there'll be more good things down the road.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1492450) )}

You know, it's oh, I like that language that you said, it didn't happen to me, it happened.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1498915) )}

Oh, it happened for me. Yeah.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1501165) )}

Yeah, I like that.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1503100) )}

Everything in my life has happened for me. I lost my mom to alcoholism. She was 41 years old, and I was just ten. And oddly enough, it's one of the best things that probably happened to me. It really has changed the trajectory of my life, even back then. Everything does happen for me and for a reason. It's not always apparent why. It's just you just have to pick yourself up and dust yourself off and move forward, take another step forward.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1535212) )}

Yeah. What was the most exciting part about this for you? Did you have something where you were just like, did you kind of get a fire lit under your ass and just kind of, like, decided that we're going to do this and we're going to dive head first into the deep end and just hope we don't drown? Or were you a little bit more shy about it? How is that?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1561837) )}

Do you mean early on versus now or, like, early on?

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1565320) )}

Yeah, both.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1566655) )}

Yeah, I think well, it's funny, I try to advise the women in my support groups, like, don't do what I did, and that was I did dive headfirst into relationships, and here I was in the tail end of a really brutal divorce, and I was getting involved with my first girlfriend. And. You know. I probably a team of wild horses would not have kept me from doing that then. So I don't advise doing that. So I don't head first early on. But yet in terms of the socializing part of it and understanding the culture. Because there is a whole culture to the lesbian world or the gay world. I was shocked at how much heteron I don't know heteronormativity or how much of my heterosexuality from my previous life I brought forward. And people who had been maybe gay their whole lives or gay longer than I have said, oh, my God, now that's so hetero. And you don't realize, like, my God, we've been so conditioned. We've been so conditioned in so many ways. So socially, I was probably shyer and moved a little bit more slowly, but I did also dive headfirst into my first relationship and yeah, and now it's kind of reversed. Now I'm a little bit older and wiser, and I take my time in terms of getting involved with people going slower, and I've really been on a journey of being the best version of me that I can be, which has really nothing to do with my sexuality, but it impacts my relationships and how I move forward within my sexuality. And I think I'm more cautious now getting involved in relationships but I'm much more outgoing socially and not afraid to admit what I don't know about the gay world or the gay culture and ask questions. And that's the other cool thing about being surrounded by other women coming out late is that we just laugh about what we don't know. We just laugh about like, oh my God. There's a really funny story about this gal in my support group who had been talking virtually, like in a zoom room or something through the chat with a woman who was showing interest in her. And she said something to my friend and she said, do you like carrot cake? And my friend newly out is like carrot cake? Is that code for something like carrot cake? So she starts googling like, what does carrot cake mean in the lesbian world? Or what is carrot cake in the gay world? And it was so funny. And as it turns out, this woman just was asking her if she's ever had carrot cake or likes carrot cake. And it's so indicative and so representative of how we feel being newly out in that. Like, there's just a whole the language and the vocabulary and it's like, yeah, carrot cake doesn't mean anything, but it just goes to show you like, how on edge we are about not knowing and being insecure and where do we fit in. It's just crazy. But for me, I'm okay with it. I mean, a lot of women are nervous and don't know how to meet other women. I mean, we talk in my support groups about like, how do you flirt? How do you flirt with a woman? Because for our whole hetero lives, we've always let the man make the first move. And now suddenly we realized that, well, if we really like somebody, we have to kind of be proactive and make a move somehow. It's like, how do you flirt? And they're like, how do you kiss a girl? How do you make that move? It's literally like being twelve years old all over again and learning about all this stuff. It's pretty wild.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1801462) )}

Yeah. I think that's one of the most fun and exciting parts for me is like the learning all the different stuff because I fancy myself a lifelong learner. But I do have this little part of me that's like I'm not going to lie, there is like a slight part of me that thinks I know everything. Even though I'm a complete idiot, I don't know anything at all.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1823995) )}

Stop saying that. That's not true.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1828612) )}

I don't know a single thing. But I'm constantly learning and I want to learn like more and more and more and more and more. And I find sometimes I will overload myself with information about something or like I will overload myself with the language and then I'll kind of get lost in the weeds kind of a thing. Has that happened to you or do you know somebody that's happened. To you.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1856662) )}

Well, first I was going to ask you, how long have you known you were pansexual? When did you realize?

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1864237) )}

Very recently. Within the last couple of years? Yeah, probably within the last maybe five years or so. Yeah.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1873387) )}

I think out of all the labels or all the different spectrum of being gay, I think pansexual is so beautiful because you just love the person, you know, which is so cool. I love that in terms of being bogged down by like, vocabulary. I think the thing that I don't feel so bogged down by like day to day vocabulary, but what still trips me up are the gender things. Like I'm so used to saying, hey guys, or I just trip over myself constantly about addressing people with the right pronouns. And I'm trying I mean, I'm really damn it, I'm trying my hardest. It's going to take a while. It's going to really take a while for me to get that to become more natural. So that's the hardest thing I have in terms of learning how to address a room full of quote unquote women, but they may not identify as women. It's like what? I don't know yet. So that's the hardest for me right now is dealing with pronouns and gender identification and how to properly address people because I don't want to insult anybody.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1949812) )}

Right? We are going to take a quick break and then we'll be right back. What is it, you guys? I wanted to talk to you a.

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{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2041617) )}

For sponsoring this episode and Rebecca. And we are here talking with the lovely, beautiful Robin about coming out and coming out late. And I am so excited to talk to you about this because I too struggle with and I'm trying you said I am constantly trying to make sure that I get everybody's pronouns correct and that I am using the right lingo. My husband and I were actually at a Pride event recently in the town that we live in, and they had a shirt and we live in the south, we live in Texas, and it said, y'all means all. And so I have just defaulted to using y'all.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2090382) )}


{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2093812) )}

Instead of saying like, hey, guys, or what's up? I just default to using you all because I feel like it just kind of covers everything and it's like my little comfort blanket that I use. Yeah, that's funny.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2109927) )}

I came from the Northeast and I've been down in North Carolina now for about five years, and I started picking up you all just because they say that around here. But now it's actually helpful because that's probably going to be my default and go to when I don't know how to address people and just say y'all. It's easier because it does mean all.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2132287) )}

Yes, it does. And it's all inclusive and I feel like it's that happy. Like, you know, it includes everybody and that's kind of like the goal, you know. But, yeah, I struggle with the language and all of that all the time, and I think that stems a lot from like I don't necessarily want to offend anybody, but I also don't want I don't want to hurt anybody either. And I know that, like, you know, like, coming out can be a very traumatizing thing for some people. It can be very difficult. And so I don't want to compound that when we're speaking or when we're conversing or something. And so it's very kind of tricky for me. But, yeah, you all is kind of my default.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2184562) )}

I'm not shy about asking for help, and there are a few people in my Facebook group who are right there. As soon as I make a snafu and do something a little bit off kilter, they're right there to correct me. And I've just learned to be gracious and to thank them and to try to store it and use their suggestions the next time. And it's just repetition one day. I'll get it.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2211862) )}

Yeah, definitely. I do think you touched on something very important, though, is like asking for help. I think we live in a society for some reason, we live in a society where asking for help is like a sign of weakness and where it's not considered like a good thing. And I do not accept that. I refuse to accept that because I heard this thing one time and it was like, you are born. Every animal of every species is born. Innately with this one ability that they need to survive. So, like, giraffes are born with legs and they can come out and they can just walk. And human beings, our first reaction response when we are born is to cries to seek help. And so I kind of took that to heart a little bit and I was like, that's so true. I never thought about it like that.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2266915) )}

Yeah. I've never been shy to ask for help. I just haven't. And even more so, especially after I got divorced, my God. Unfortunately, the way our relationship and our marriage evolved, he ended up taking care of all the financial things and taxes and insurance and medical and blah, blah, blah. And I found myself at a complete loss after the divorce. So I just told people when I met the accountant that was referred to me, I just said, listen, I have like a third grade level of understanding of what you do for a living. So I was just really open with people saying that this is my weakness and I need your help. And the same is true in the gay world. If I do know some people that have been out for a long time, I may consult them and say, what was this like for you? Or just ask for help with the gender and the pronouns or whatever it might be. And I think that's what helps disarm people when they're in my support group, because I don't profess to know it all, I just don't. We're all learning together. We may be at different stages of this journey, but we can all help each other out just by saying, hey, I need help. I don't understand this.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2346262) )}

Yeah. What would you say would be like your best words of wisdom or words of help to give somebody who's just.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2357680) )}

Saying yeah, words of wisdom or words of advice? Wow. To not feel guilty and not feel shame that this just is what it is. And yes, if they are partnered up with either a man or whoever.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2379262) )}


{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2379595) )}

Know, yes, you're hurting that person, and yes, you may be breaking up your family if your family unit chooses to go that route. And not all families do, which is really cool. But to try to really be give yourself as much grace and love as possible, because this is not something anybody planned to do, wanted to do, nobody stepped out getting married wanting to hurt the other person. So I'm on a mission to try to get women to not feel so much shame and guilt and fear and to make the decisions in their life that are in their best interest. And it's not selfish.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2421787) )}

Yeah, I like that. And I like that you said that. It's not selfish.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2428377) )}

No, it's not selfish. It's selfcare. It's selfcare, not selfish.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2433712) )}

Well, because you're affirming something about yourself, right?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2438470) )}

Yeah. I mean, yeah. Does the timing suck? Sure. You might be ten years into your marriage, it's like, oh, my God. But you still have to face these things. No one said when we came out crying as babies that life was going to be smooth. Nobody guaranteed us that. But we're all capable, really capable, strong individuals, that it's not a selfish act to need and want to live your life as a gay individual. There's no shame in it, and I really don't want women to feel guilty about it.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2475112) )}

Yeah. And I think that that is very important is the guilt and the shame and recognizing that within ourselves and then being able to figure out what we need to do to sort of let that go. Because not everything is within our control or within our power. And just because also to use the language is like, there's nothing wrong with you. It's not that you're broken. It's not that you just didn't like it's just that you just didn't come with that part. You came with this other piece. Exactly. Does that make sense?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2521225) )}

Yes. It's funny because as you were talking, I was like, I wanted to share the message that there is nothing wrong with any of us. We were born exactly how we needed to be born, and we each have really beautiful parts to share with the world. And just like me looking back and not regretting any parts of my life, the women that are coming out and making the decisions that they're making, we need to honor those parts of our past and know that that's how we got to where we are today. And yet none of us are broken. We were not born broken, and we are still not broken. There's no two of us alike, and we were just born the way we were born. I mean, I have ADHD that. I suffered with terribly, and I finally freaking just got medicated for it. Only a couple of weeks ago. I went on an antidepressant and felt shame about it for the longest time. Wouldn't tell anyone about that. We're not broken. We all just have different needs, different we're on different paths. There's nothing wrong with us.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2591380) )}

No, it's just you kind of got to find I feel like life is a journey. It's so cliche to say, but it's just true.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2599450) )}

It really is.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2601412) )}

But along that journey, I feel like I have learned a lot, and I continue to learn a lot, and I hope that I never stop learning, but also I find bits and pieces of myself that fit along the way that fit within me, and I'm just like, oh, okay, this goes here. This goes here.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2621887) )}

Yes. And having digested a lot of your podcast over the last two days, you're a beautiful individual, a beautiful person, and yeah, I mean, you are on a beautiful journey, and I just want so much for you, to love you for who you are and all those pieces and yeah, these pieces are not clear to us. We're not given the whole puzzle on day one that we're born. I just picked up this gate piece seven years ago and it's like, oh, okay, that sits here. And I was never a very religious person, never. But I felt some little stirring in me that I was spiritual. And now on this journey, I have gotten more and more and more spiritual to the part to the point where I can actually manifest things because of my belief and my faith. And it's just a journey. Don't look for the end zone because there is no end zone. Enjoy today. Enjoy life today. Enjoy the people in your life today. Be grateful for something. I sat here yesterday watching a gecko on my screen just trying to catch bugs and laughing hysterically. It's the little things in life. We can't sweat the small stuff or especially the big stuff, too. It's just not worth it. It's too short.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2704537) )}

Definitely. I mean side quest. I love geckos. They're so cute. I think they're the most adorable of all the lizards. They're my favorite.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2714592) )}

Which one?

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2715280) )}

Them in salamanders. Salamanders?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2717622) )}

I was a kid. I love salamanders. My younger daughter actually breeds crested geckos and they are so cool. They're bigger than the regular geckos and they're really cool. But yeah, they entertain me all day. One of them got in today and I had to escort them out. I mean, they're just hysterical, they really are.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2736115) )}

But it's the little things in life you got to take pleasure where you can get it kind of thing.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2742337) )}

There's pleasure all around us. We have choices in life. We can choose pleasure or we can choose to go the hard way. And there's no need to have to choose to go the hard way. I mean, like I said, life throws crazy spit balls at us all the time. And we don't have to choose the hard way. We can choose being positive and being loving and just being accepting of whatever.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2764087) )}

Dodge yeah, well, life is hard enough. Why would you try to make it harder in yourself by, you know, doing those things?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2771740) )}

Exactly. I had this guy, I was in a seminar, or was really a retreat, and he drew these two pictures on the board. One was just a straight line going across, and the other was a wavy line, up and down, up and down. And he said, now, these are EKGs. And the EKG machine is what measures your heartbeat. And a flat line, it pretty much tells you that you're dead. And then the other wavy one shows you that you're alive. And he says, which one of these lines would you want to be? And of course, we all want to be the wavy line. Well, that's life. Up and down, up and down. You could choose a straight line, but you're going to be pretty dead.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2809537) )}


{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2811037) )}

So I choose the wavy line, and I just learned how to surf the.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2813920) )}

Waves well, but also, how boring would that be if it was just super flat and dull? How boring would that be?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2824075) )}

It would be super boring. Super boring. Yeah. I wouldn't last very long in that lifestyle, that's for sure.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2832862) )}

No, definitely not. I wouldn't either. I couldn't make it. I would cause chaos. Just chaos. Just something different.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2842462) )}

I know. So true.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2844355) )}

So do you feel different now after like, your AHA moment and like, after you've taken this journey, it's taken you about seven years and like, now you're here and you have this beautiful show and you have all of these wonderful support groups, do you feel different or do you feel the same but better? Like almost like Robin 20, or is.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2868130) )}

It like I'm definitely Robin 20 and I just feel like every day is a gift. I feel I feel free, I feel happy. And yes, I have sad days, you know, I mean, there's days I'm still getting over the last relationship and trying to figure out what to learn in that. And I'm excited about this new person I'm talking to. And yeah, I'm Robin 2.0 and I can't wait to continue on the journey of Robin 3.0 and above. That's kind of where I'm at. Give it to me. I'm ready.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2906887) )}

Oh, I'm so excited for you. So where do you see yourself going with this? Where would you want it to go? Do you have a projection?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2917687) )}

Yeah, I mean, I think I would love to be speaking around the country and even abroad. There are people in the UK, Australia, Canada, Germany that listen to my podcast. 2000 people a week tune in, which is really cool. I would love to do speaking engagements. I would like to also do retreats in Canada, the UK, Australia, here in the US, because the women that are coming out late, it's like they want to be socialized, they just want to be with other people like them. So they feel kind of safe and they just want to meet other people. The pandemic was tough in that regard. So I'd like to do public speaking. I'd like to do retreats all over. Maybe dinner parties, maybe there are monthly dinner parties and do something like that. And I'd love to find a sponsor for my podcast because I haven't monetized anything. I've been living off of my savings and I haven't been monetizing a thing. So I really need to figure out how to make a living. And I'm probably going to be doing a private membership site so that we can get out of Facebook. And we've had a lot of breaches over there. So I want to get over to and maybe do some online digital courses for women because there are so many different areas that they want to learn things about. So I would love to do that. And I have a really wild and crazy idea for this company barb. They are two gay women who created only two years ago, a pomade for women who have short hair to style their hair. And I have this desire to get them to purchase an RV for me to drive around for them. And I want to plastered this RV with barb decals and barb whatever. You know, I think they call it wrapping, wrapping the RV. And I want to tour around all of the US. And create events at their barber shops and have makeovers for my coming out late women and get their hair cut short and get them all feeling like they're gay because, like, a lot of them are saying, how do I look gay? I look to fem or I look to this, and how do I present as gay? And I want to do barbecues at these different venues and try to hit some of the last few remaining gay bar lesbian bars that are in the country and just create a hoopla around the country. And I want to drive the barbus and promote their product as well. So that's one of my biggest dreams.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(3078637) )}

Oh, my gosh, that would be so cool. I fully support this. Oh my gosh, yes.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(3083335) )}

No, I know. I really want to do it. I've been in contact briefly with the women who run Barb, and I didn't run this idea past them. And I want to try to get on their schedule and have a zoom call with them and just say, I know it's a wild and crazy idea, but yeah, something I want to do. I love thinking outside the box.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(3105187) )}


{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(3107512) )}

Whatever resources and things that I can provide, this really rapidly growing community is what I want to do.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(3117037) )}

Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, you're a great resource and a great support. Oh my gosh, you just emanate, like, joy and hope and just like, I can feel that energy. It's so amazing. Thank you. I have one more question for you, and I promise I won't keep you any longer. What inspires you and what do you hope to inspire in others?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(3140137) )}

What inspires me? One of the greatest things that has been inspiring me is really learning as much as I can about myself and becoming the best version of myself. And that means shedding shame, shedding guilt, not worrying about being selfish. A lot of the things that we as women are straddled with just as a result of our culture. So I've been really enjoying challenging those things within me and undoing some of those things within me. And I'm glad I appreciate you recognizing that. I seem to represent joy and hope because I feel that, and I'm telling you, it's been a long time coming. I mean, I have been depressed for a long time. Really? When I left my marriage, I was in a really, really dark place. And to feel this level of joy, I just want to share it. I just really want to share it. And I want to help other women learn to be selfless and to be full of selfcare and selflove, because until we learn how to love ourselves, which we're not taught how to do, we can't love other people, really not in a healthy way. And I think that's something that I would really like to it's bigger to me than just our sexuality. For me, it's more about women's studies, and I really want women to learn how to truly, deeply love themselves. And it's from there that they can then get into healthy relationships and live their best life, whether they're gay or not.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(3244162) )}

Yes. Oh, I love that. Oh, my gosh, I'm so excited for you. Thank you. It's going to be so great. I can't wait to see where it goes. I want all the good things for you.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(3257980) )}

Thank you. Me too. Thank you.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(3262537) )}

Well, tell everybody one more time where they can find you. And thank you so much for coming.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(3268825) )}

Are you kidding? It's been my pleasure. My pleasure. If anybody has any questions or comments or thoughts or wants to sponsor or whatever has ideas, they can email me at Coming Out Later@gmail.com. Coming out later@gmail.com. So, yeah, that's what I usually tell people. And my podcast is on Apple Podcast Spotify, wherever you find your podcast. And that's called coming out late. Podcast. And what else? Yes, the support groups are private, but if you go through, you can look up Coming Out Late Facebook group in Facebook and request to join the private group, and then you can find out about the support groups that way. So, yeah coming out later@gmail.com and coming out late. Podcast. Spread the word.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(3314587) )}

Oh, definitely. We're going to spread the word as far as we can. Well, thank you so much for coming. I really enjoy talking to you. You are always welcome on the show.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(3326437) )}

Thanks, Abigail.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(3329662) )}

Yeah, absolutely. And thank you guys so much for listening. I really appreciate it. As always, you can find me on Twitter at MP Weirdo podcast. You can find me on Instagram and TikTok, the underscore main underscore weirdo one. You can check out the show anywhere you can get podcasts, and you can also email me at manipulate protonmail.com. Thank you again, Robin. This is so great. I really appreciate it. Oh, yeah, of course. And as always, guys, be kind and stay weird. Have a good one.