Finding Balance Between Money, Happiness and Your Passions

Published by Everyone's Talkin' Money podcast

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So I think the first step in tackling money anxiety is being very clear on what is it that you really need to live a comfortable life? What is that number? What does that look like? Let's say on a monthly basis, annualize that, and then figure out, okay, what is the income you need to support that? And I feel like for some reason, because we're so fearful of money, it's sort of a psychological thing. We don't want to look under the covers in some ways, but I feel that once you do that, it gives you a lot of clarity.

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Welcome to everyone's talking Money podcast. I'm your host Shannah Game. There's no judgment, no dumb questions, just smart conversations about you and your money. So come on in and grab a seat. Everyone is welcome here.

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You can learn about investing, saving, and traveling. And tips on negotiation on plenty of podcasts. But none of those are like Financial Feminist.

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Financial Feminists was one of the first.

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To talk about how money affects women differently, without shame or judgment, and without shying away from tough conversations about systemic oppression. Host Tory Dunlop weaves equal parts wit with heart alongside hard hitting questions to dig into the deepest topics in finance and feminism, from the essential to the taboo. You'll learn everything about topics like the best retirement accounts to choose how to stop emotionally spending, the recruitment tactics of cults and multilevel marketing schemes, or predatory financial systems like bail bonds to toxic masculinity, diet culture, the secrets of the entertainment industry, and everything in between. Financial Feminists is a space for a new generation of feminists and allies to gain financial education in a shame and judgment free environment. It's also an exploration of the ways that finance and money connect everything we touch and how we create more equitable systems and create more change for the better in our communities. New guests interviews every Tuesday and actionable solo episodes every other Thursday, with plenty of fun, bonus episodes in between. Listen to Financial Feminist wherever you get your podcasts, a new year brings on new hopes and goals and ideas and.

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Thoughts about how you want to make.

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This your best year ever. But it's not always easy to stick to all those promises you make yourself each day. There are distractions, stress, fear, doubt, all sorts of emotions that come into play. And then there's money. That big old 800 pound gorilla.

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If you've been listening to this show for a while, you know that money.

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Touches every aspect of life. However, the tricky part is that money can't be everything and your only source of happiness. The magic is in finding a delicate balance. That's why I was so excited to have our guests Vish Chatterjee on the show. Vish is an accomplished business leader, turn, executive coach, and the author of a book called The Business Casual Yogi. Take charge of your body, mind, and career. What I wanted to know from vish was how do you find a balance between money, happiness, honoring your passions and your spirituality? So we're diving deep into this question so you can learn how to go from unbalanced to balanced in your life, money and career and make this year, yes, truly your best year yet. So let's start talking.

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Vish, I am so thrilled to have you join us on the podcast today. Thank you so much for being here.

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I'm excited to be on this show, Shaunna especially. It's titled Everyone's Talking Money. And I do love talking money. So this is a great opportunity to have a conversation about money.

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Well, you're in good company, Vish, because, yes, we love to talk about money on this show. And there's so many subjects I want to dive into with you. And we're in the new year, we're trying to figure out how to do everything better. And I think part of that is how do we get better control of ourselves, better control of our financial lives?

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How do we just feel better?

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In the last few years for us has been really tough, right? COVID the political climate around the world. We've got high costs of inflation everywhere. It's just costing us more shake up in the workforce. And we're all just kind of re examining what we do and who we are. And there are so many distractions and stress, and we already know money is pretty much the number one cause of stress, and it's just hard to find space to breathe and relax. So you have this really interesting story of how you went from what you call yourself an engineer, which is really interesting too, now a meditation yoga expert, and you help people deconstruct their lives in order to just build a healthier, more balance to life and career. So we're going to dive into your journey and your approach in a bit, but I want to just start with money and stress, probably something that we're all familiar with. How do we first recognize if money stress and money fears? How do we recognize if they're causing us an imbalance in our lives?

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I think a lot of times it's a question of clarity. I work with clients on a one on one basis as an executive coach and as sort of a life advisor. And when somebody comes to my office and presents with money stress and money challenges and they have this sort of this anxiety, when you're in that state of anxiety and fear on money, you don't want to look under the COVID you don't want to pull up and see what's really going on. But in executive coaching situation, that's the question I'll ask, is, let's see what's really going on here. And oftentimes I'll get out the whiteboard and I'll say, okay, let's just write down everything going on in your life when it comes to money. And it turns out that a lot of times when there's money stress there isn't clarity about how people's expenses really look. So I'll have people start writing down, like, what do you spend your money on? What are your monthly expenses? And they'll start going through this exercise, and a lot of times they'll say, well, I need this much income to survive. And when they write down all the things that they actually spend money on, we start crossing off the things that aren't really, really needed. It turns out that they actually have the means to support their true goal and their true lifestyle. It's just they haven't looked under the covers, under the hood, so to speak. So I think the first step in tackling money anxiety is being very clear on what is it that you really need to live a comfortable life? What is that number? What does that look like? Let's say on a monthly basis, annualize that, and then figure out, okay, what does the income need to support that? And I feel like for some reason, because we're so fearful of money, it's sort of a psychological thing. We don't want to look under the covers in some ways. But I feel that once you do that, it gives you a lot of clarity. And in my younger days, when I was in my early twenty s, I kept very detailed, like, spreadsheets of what I would spend. And I remember my wife would get so annoyed, she's like, why do I have to enter every single spreadsheet? I'm like, you have to, you have to. And so every time we'd spend anything, I'd have a receipt and I'd entered in. And so at any given time, I knew exactly what I was spending my money on. And I could create all these sophisticated pie charts and be like, okay, this is where we're spending our money. Do we really want to do it that way? And so always having that clarity, that awareness of what's really going on, I think is very important.

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Yeah. And we were talking a little bit before we hit the record button that you actually a little bit about your money story, and I want you to fill in some of the blanks, but you set yourself up to be able to really explore your passions and have this life you want to live. You're an author of the book called The Business Casual Yogi, and it's all about taking charge of your body, your mind, and your career. And so thinking about going from a place of unbalanced to a place of balance, even just bringing in a little bit of your history here, of your money story.

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What are some of the ways that.

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We can really work to find this balance between our money, our happiness, and then our passions in life?

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Well, I think the first time you get an influx of money, right, so let's say you get a bonus at work, or you get a pay rise or an increase in your salary. The choice that you make after that is sort of an indicator of how things will go. And so I remember that I would get a promotion or I'd get an increase in my salary or I get a bonus, and I would really question, what am I going to do with that increased money? And there's this euphoria that comes where you're like, wow, look at this. I always got this much for my paycheck. And you're like, okay, I want to go buy this, or I want to go buy that, or I want to treat myself. And I think it is good to reward yourself. I think it's important to if you reward yourself when you do get a pay bump or a bonus, you reward yourself. It gives you this muscle memory that feels good, that incentivizes you to keep working, but you have to do it within reason. Give yourself a treat, give yourself a reward, but take that excess money that is now new from what you had before and start investing that. Start doing something with that. And it's the long game that makes a difference, right? So every time I get a little bit more money, either in a salary increase, a new job or a bonus, I take a little bit of it, treat myself, maybe a nice dinner out or maybe a nice new gadget or whatever. But the majority of it would go into investing. And, you know, after 25 years of investing, that becomes pretty significant capital that all of a sudden gives you choices to do very different things in life. So I know that, you know, most people are like, what's the short game? What can I do and what's this hot stock that I can invest in? You know, that works for a few people, right? And they boast about their stories of how successful they were. But for the majority of us, it's a long game. It's a slow game. Like, you got your financial planner certification, you understand, it's the long game, the slow, diligent investing that really makes a difference over time. So anytime you get a little extra money, take some of it, treat yourself, but take the majority of it and do something with it that helps you in the long term.

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I like that a lot. I like the idea of balance because I feel like, I know I've been very guilty of this myself, of not having balance. And they know what it feels like on both ends. And for myself and my husband, finding this balance between our work and our life together, it's been a bit of a struggle going back to, as we say, BC before COVID the last couple of years really just made us realize as individuals, as a couple, that we really wanted to just shake up our lives. And really part of that shake up was to build a happier life. We moved from La to we call them the healing mountains of Asheville, North Carolina. And you're in this business of helping people find their path in their life and help them forge a new path. And you call it capital Y, and you really getting back to you. So I'd love to just spend a little bit of time and break down. You've got this six point coaching approach, if we could, and just kind of break down each of these different six points. I want to start with number one. And it really is, I think, so powerful for so many of us, and that is getting clear on the root of the matter. How do we do this? How do we find the foundation, the root.

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Even before the 6th point? There's a chapter in my book where I write about a Vedic philosophy. The yoga traditions is not just stretching on the mat, right? So, yes, in America, you go to a yoga studio, you do these twists and stretches, you put your body in these certain positions, and they call that yoga. But that's actually a very small piece of it. There's an entire philosophy and system that underpins the entire system. And the yoga practice on the mat is just one piece of a much more complex system. So within that more complex system, there's a philosophy called the Vedic philosophy. And within it they described that we have four aims in life. And those four aims are known as artha, kama, Dharma and moksha. There's sort of four different areas of life that need to be balanced. Arthur is your financial well being. So finding a way to do something that earns you money to give yourself a financial platform, a roof over your head, enough money to enjoy the things you want to enjoy in life, buy yourself some nice things here and there, but also give you the platform for the other things. The other one is Comma, which is having fun, right? So you do have to have fun in life. Enjoy passionate, romantic relationships, marriage, going out for a nice meal, going out on a nice holiday. All of those things fall under comma. Then Dharma is honoring your higher platform, your higher calling in life, your higher calling. What is it that you're really here to do? And then finally, the fourth one is Mocha, which is your spiritual practices. So you have to do all four in balance. And what happens in the Western world is you just pick one. You got people who are like hardcore spiritual practitioners, and they forget about everything else. You get hardcore heedonists that, just have fun, and all they think about is fun and partying, but they don't have their life in order or other people who just work and work and work, and all they think about is making money and saving money, but they don't have any fun at all. Right? And so we want to find a way to balance all four of these. So when you talk about that first point in coaching, getting to the root of the matter. The root is what are you really here to do? What is your your deeper passion? What is your inner calling? But that may not be the way you earn your money. You may earn money a different way and something that is just work to pay the to earn. But that work then provides you a platform, a financial platform, to then honor your inner calling. So not all of us are so lucky where our job pays for. In a way, our job is our inner calling. That's very rare. Sometimes you have to have a job that just pays the bills and gives you the time and the financial space to then follow your inner calling. Does that make sense?

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Yeah, absolutely. I was just talking about this at dinner the other night, how I started this podcast back in 2015. And at that time I was a working financial planner. But I could do that really well. I could put together an amazing financial plan, but it wasn't creative enough for me. I have a strong creative desire and the podcasting was just something that I love. It just feels so innately me. But there were many years where I did this show and I was like, I don't know if I should keep doing this because it takes a lot of time, it takes a lot of effort. It's something that I love doing, but it certainly wasn't providing any income or a paycheck or anything like that. And so I thought, well, do I keep this up? Because this is what I really want to do. But I don't have no evidence that it's actually going to move me in that direction. But I followed that just intuition inside of me that no, like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And it was really somewhere around 2018, 2019, where I started to see the fruits of my labor take off. But honestly, if it didn't become my.

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Full time job, it still was something.

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That I really love doing. And I think so many of us listening can relate to that. There's all this messaging around, follow your passions and your passion will suddenly provide you a paycheck. But what you're saying is the reality is that doesn't always happen. But it is so important to have something in life that you're passionate about.

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Yeah, I think that whole ideal of follow your passion, make your passion your primary income is this impossible goal that ends up making people feel very depressed about their work. Right? So if you have a job that you don't really enjoy and it's not your passion, then you start to get really frustrated with that work. But I think we have to realize that, look, there's a complete sort of balanced system here. And for most people, 99% of people, you're going to work in a type of work that is sort of fun, sort of okay, not perfect, not perfectly aligned to your passions, but it provides you the income and it provides you the platform to then indulge in your true passions and creativity. And you want to indulge in your passions and your true calling in a way that isn't being disturbed with income needs and income requirements, right? Your financial planning work allowed you to have a platform to indulge in your true passion, which was the podcasting. Now, you ended up being one of those lucky few where the two merged, and now you're able to do your passion work and earn from it. But it doesn't always work out that way. And I think we should be forgiving of ourselves if they too don't align.

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And I think there's this real message. I mean, I grew up in a family where there was a lot of focus on perfectionism and there was a lot of focus on making money. And I interpreted that, that if I was not making money at something, it was not, I don't know, as important. And whatever I was making money on, I had to be the best, the absolute best. And so there were many years where I didn't really indulge in any passions. It's funny when I'm kind of dating myself here, but when the Food Network happened, I started watching these cooking shows and I was like, oh my gosh, I can do that. I love to cook. And so for me, cooking is something where it's a big stress relief. And if I could do it every day before I allowed myself to do it every day, it's something I really love. I'm not ever going to turn into a chef or have a food career. But I'm wondering, like for so many of us listening, specifically, being in this new year, I'm not even sure the question I'm trying to ask, but how do we allow ourselves to explore passions and not attach income or life meaning to it necessarily, but just have it be something that fulfills us on all of those four levels you're talking about?

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I think the way to think about it is in terms of health and wellness, right? So some people go to the gym to work out. Some people go for a run. Some people do their meditation practice. Some people do their yoga practice. There's no payout at the end of that. You're doing it as a daily practice or a weekly practice to keep your overall wellbeing and health. And so in the same way as you indulge in your body, from a nutrition point of view, from an exercise point of view, and you indulge your mind, and from a meditation point of view, indulging your passions is part of well being. So if you make a regular effort to do a little bit of the things that you're passionate about, and sometimes they're noble passions, right? Like, okay, cooking or being creative or art sometimes they're not so noble. Maybe it's watching a guilty pleasure on TV, right? It may be your passion, but indulging in that sort of happiness, things that make you happy on a regular basis is part of your well being. It's part of health maintenance, is the way I think about it. So even if it doesn't earn money, it doesn't matter. It is giving you a sense of wellbeing and a sense of happiness. Just feeling that feeling, exercising that muscle of joy and happiness and being in a flow state is part of your well being.

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I want to talk a little bit about meditation and yoga. Dig a little bit deeper here. I'm a big fan of meditating. My husband and I have been doing it for a few years now. I know it's certainly not a cure all, but it does really help to tame money and life stress. For those listening that are new to meditation, help us out here. What is it and how can it help us with our money, our stress, our fears, finding balance, all of those things?

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Well, I think, you know, from from a yoga perspective, you know, the the yogic, let's say yoga anatomy looks at us as these three levels of being a body, a subtle body and a causal body, so to speak. So your body is what you see, right? Your muscles, your bones, your joints, your skin, your circulatory system, all of that. So we take care of that in various ways nutrition, moving our body, exercising. Then there's a subtle body, which is where our emotions and our mind resides. We don't know where that is, right? If I say, hey, Shawn, a point to your mind, you don't really know where it is, but it's a subtle body, it's a part of our being. And our mind is where a lot of things break down, right? Our mind gets into all sorts of drama and emotions, and the market goes down, and we start to panic and start to pull our investments out. As you know, as a financial planner, a lot of times it's trying to get somebody to get out of their head for long term financial planning. But then there's a part of our being. There's our deeper consciousness. You could call it our soul, our higher self, our inner self, our inner being, our inner wisdom, our consciousness, whatever that is. And that inner being is usually a lot wiser than the mind. It's got a certain understanding of the bigger picture. And if we can tap into that inner consciousness, we can make much better decisions. So what happens when you're meditating is in a state of meditation. When you sit in a formal sitting meditation practice, you transcend your body, you transcend your mind, and you access that higher consciousness. So if you have a daily meditation practice, you're daily tapping into this higher level of consciousness of yours. And so what happens is your intuition starts to improve, and naturally, throughout the day, you start to make better decisions from a higher place. So that is sort of the science behind why meditation has the miraculous effects it has. But at a minimum, if you're not into the yogic perspective of it, at a minimum, a meditation practice is every time your mind wanders, you're coming back to the object of your meditation. So whatever type of meditation you do doesn't matter. Your mind wanders, you're trying to come back to the meditation. And so what happens? You start to develop this practice of coming back to the goal of yours, right? So the same thing happens then in your day to day life, is you get off track of your goal. You've come back to goal. You get off track of goal, you've come back to goal. So when I coach people and I help them set goals, and they ask me, okay, vish, how do I stick on goal? I sell it. Well, start meditating, right? Because as soon as you start meditating, that's a daily practice of coming back to goal. And as a byproduct of meditation, you start to become more resilient. So I wish there was data on this, but I assume when the market drops, the meditators are the ones that stay the course. There's an interesting article that came out last week about fidelity bank, and they noticed that some of their best performing portfolios are people who have passed away, but they didn't realize had passed. The bank didn't realize. So there was nobody calling up and saying, hey, make this change the investment. The portfolio is invested in the market with no mind coming in saying, okay, pull out, sell, buy. They just left it, right? The person has passed away. Fidelity then looks at those accounts, realizes the person has passed away, but they also realize in that time, the portfolio actually performed better than the people who are calling in all the time, complaining about whatever. So the more we can get out of our own way, the better we actually do in the long run. And meditation is one of those practices that helps us get beyond our mind, so to speak.

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That's fascinating. I would love that data, too. I would hope that exists somewhere. Okay. Vish so I get the idea of coming back to goal and how meditation.

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Helps us do that.

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I've practically seen that work for me. But I'm wondering also, are there right or wrong ways to meditate? And what if we don't always have a lot of time to meditate on a daily basis? Can we still reap these rewards of bringing our brains kind of into this higher place?

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Yeah, so there's a lot of confusion around meditation, especially in the western world. There's all sorts of gimmicky, exciting, cool, trendy ways to meditate. But the basic system of meditation originates from the yoga tradition, right? So yoga, the physical yoga practice, was actually a way to prepare the body for deeper states of meditation. And so the yoga system has these very specific requirements around how to meditate. And one of the requirements is that you're sitting, that you're sitting with your spine straight. So people who are lying down and trying to meditate, that's a relaxation technique. That's not a meditation technique. So one requirement is you have to be sitting with your spine straight so the energetic channels are aligned in the right way. The other very important thing, the sanskrit word is pratiahara. Pratiyahara means a withdrawal of the senses. So your eyes should be closed, for one. And some people, for whatever reason, have a hard time closing their eyes. But you have to have your eyes closed to meditate. You can't be smelling things. You can't be tasting things. You can't be hearing things. And so most of the time when you're meditating, your eyes are closed. You're not smelling things, you're not tasting things. But oftentimes people are using a guided meditation. And as that voice is entering your ear through your ear phones or through the speaker, your brain is actually processing that auditory stimulus. So the brain isn't able to get into those deeper states that are required for meditation. So I think one requirement is no sound. You sit quietly and then so spine straight. Sitting down, no external stimulus, then you have to pick some object to meditate on, whatever that is. It can be a mantra, right? A lot of yoga techniques involved working on a mantra. Let's say om, right? Your mind wanders, you think of om and you come back to om. It can be an image, it can be imagination of something, it can be a deity or an icon that you visualize. It doesn't really matter. So as long as you're quiet with no external stimulus, you have some object of meditation that you're coming to and you're sitting with your spine straight. That works very well for a lot of the Vipassana style meditation. I think they use their breath. So the object of meditation is the breath. Every time the mind wanders, come back to noticing your inhale and noticing your exhale. So the technique doesn't matter as long as you have these few requirements satisfied.

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Okay, so then is there like an ideal length of time or is it just literally if you could take a couple of minutes?

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That's exactly I think it's think about it like working out, right? When you first start working out, you do shorter things. You don't overtax your physical system. Same thing with meditation. Somebody's starting out aim for three minutes, five minutes as long as it's daily, right? And some people are like, well, I'm just going to do yoga on the weekends or once a week in the studio. It's sort of like saying, I'm going to brush my teeth once a week. So like, instead of brushing two minutes in the morning, two minutes in the afternoon, in the evening I'm going to brush for an hour on Saturdays. It's not going to work out. Like you have to have a daily cleansing of the teeth. Same way meditation is a daily cleansing of your energy channels. And so it's better to do five minutes a day than to do 30 minutes once a week. So think about it that way. And then once you've meditated for, let's say five minutes a day for a few weeks, you're going to start noticing things and you're going to start noticing how quickly that time goes and you're going to naturally want to do a little bit longer. Yeah.

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So wait, tell me a little bit like, like, what are we going to start noticing in even our bodies and our brains?

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Well, I think one of the things that my clients seem to notice very quickly is a different sort of way of reacting to challenges and stress in the day. So initially there would be something stressful that happened and the person would react immediately, whereas they're able to take a little bit more of a pause and sort of observe the situation before reacting. And that can be quite miraculous, right? For somebody says something that upsets you and you just have a little bit of a pause before you react, that can change things. You start to have a pause before you make decisions. You start to make decisions from a much more, I guess, calmer place of witnessing awareness. That's what it's called in the yoga tradition, witnessing awareness, where you're doing an activity, but you can observe yourself from the outside doing that same activity. You start to have more of that show up in your life. And in a way, you're not lost in the activity you're doing inside of your body. You're able to see it from the outside.

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Yeah, that's powerful. Like to be able to make those shifts and that pause that you talk about, it seems so simple, and yet it's difficult to do. And so when you do it, I often tell people that when you're making money decisions, you can't make money decisions or good money decisions when you're stressed or anxious or fearful. So thinking about meditation, even just I'm encouraging everyone listening just to try it and see if you can bring in a little bit more peace and ease, but find those moments of pause where you can think about things before you have a reaction and before you say or before you do something. It really can be life changing. It's certainly not going to change immediately the amount of money you have in your bank account, but it can change the trajectory of what you do with what you have. And I wanted to ask you too, you talked about working with clients. Tell me a little bit about how do you help businesses meditate better and then how does that overall help a business?

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Well, I think in large corporations, the data is quite clear that when they have groups within the companies that are regular meditators, the efficiency, the productivity, the resilience, all of that improves. I think the research is pretty clear on the efficiency side of it. So I think companies are incentivized a little bit to have their employees meditate just because it improves the overall business, right? But for me, when I work with clients, part of it is developing that resilience, developing that connection to inner wisdom, right? Instead of just walking around as a bunch of muscles, bones, joints with this big emotional mind going around, we're bringing in this third layer of our being, this higher consciousness, right? And so when you make decisions as a business leader from a place of deeper consciousness, it's better for everybody, right? And so if your emotions and your intellectual mind are the only things driving the ship, as we've seen in many corporations, that's a big problem. And we've even shifted in the corporate mentality from it used to be all about IQ, who's got the best IQ? That's the person you put in charge to, who's got the better EQ, emotional intelligence. And you put those people in charge. And now we're shifting to sq, which is spiritual intelligence. Like, can this person see the bigger capital B picture? Are they operating from the capital? Yu. Like you said earlier on, are they operating from a deeper place? Do they have the resilience to withstand the challenges that inevitably come with business cycles?

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Wow. It's so fascinating when you think about it and you think about the power of how they could change so many different things and help so many different people. And going a little bit further on your journey, you went from an engineer to yoga, meditation expert, author, coach, everything that you do, how did you decide to make this transition to make meditation and yoga something that you really wanted to use to help everyone listening, everybody find this balance between money, happiness and passions?

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Well, I don't know if I chose or if it was chosen factors beyond my control. I grew up similar to you in a family that was very much success oriented and what's your position, what's your salary, how much money do you make? That is sort of the marker of success. And so I took that as my marching orders and I went and got an engineering degree and then worked as an engineer. And then I got an MBA and went into the executive ranks. And I was basically aiming for all of the positions of power. So I wanted to be a CEO, making a big salary and being in charge of lots of stuff. And I was definitely on that track being groomed for that. And I found that one thing that I guess two smart things that I did along my career. One is I maintained a solid yoga and meditation practice every morning, no matter what, for over 20 years. So I'd get up early in the morning, I'd do my yoga practice, I do my meditation practice as a way to be a better leader, right. And sadly enough, or good or bad, my yoga and meditation practice were to help me become more successful as an executive. That was my motivation. And so then I did experience a lot of success. And I guess the second thing that I did really well was I would increase my income but not change my lifestyle. So I remember there was a point when my income had probably tripled, quadrupled from where I was with stock options and executive bonuses, but I never changed my lifestyle. I kept the same type of home, the same type of car, the same type of expenses, and all that excess money I was just investing away and helping that grow to eventually do something right. I didn't know what. Then I had a pretty difficult decision at a company where I realized that to get to the next level, I would have to compromise who I really was. And so I didn't want to make that compromise. And I thought a start up was a way to sort of go a different way. So I ended up starting a startup company and going through the whole process of building an early product building, early revenue raising capital, and went through any of your listeners that have been through a startup. It is a grind, it's brutal. But I thought that was a way to make true success, make gobs and gobs money, be the boss and find success and happiness. But it wasn't fulfilling at all. In fact, it was misery. And I sort of emerged from that wondering, what should I really do with my life? And I remember going to my yoga teacher, whose name happens to be Vish Yogi. Vishwakitu is his name. Vishwakit. He advised on the book, the business casual. Yogi. And so I went to him and he's this Indian Himalayan yogi. And I said, Vishwakita, I'm really struggling with my business. What should I do? I'm feeling at a loss here. My Indian name is Vishwajit. So he said, oh, Vishwajit, you do more yoga business, your business will be okay. And I didn't know what he meant. What do you mean yoga business? What is yoga business? But I started to think about what that might look like. And somebody actually, around that time, reached out to me for some coaching. And I was an entrepreneur. And somebody says, hey, would you coach me? I didn't actually know what coaching was, but I thought, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm going to say yes, yes, sure, happy to coach you. And so I had my first coaching client without really knowing what coaching was. I thought it was advising, so I gave lots of advice, but it worked out really well. And that first client of mine referred me to somebody else and somebody else, and all of a sudden I had this growing coaching business, even though I didn't quite know what coaching was, and this completely failing start up. So I said, you know what, it's clear that coaching is really where I need to go. And so I started to get some education. I went to UC Berkeley and did their executive coaching training program and learnt that coaching is not advising, it's actually recognizing the wisdom in the client and helping facilitate that wisdom out of them. I went and did my yoga teacher training in India. I did my Ayurveda training, I did some Vedic Astrology training. I sort of brought together my own blend and emerged from all of that as an east meets meets west coach. So Eastern philosophy meets Western management thinking. And now I've been at it for six years, and it is my groove. I finally found myself late into my career, 20 plus years into it.

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But that's great. I love that story and I think it's really important for everyone listening to hear that, to hear that you were striving, just like I was early in my career for the titles and the success. I have an NBA too, and my husband often jokes like, how many initials are you going to have after your name? But that was like the measure of success, but coming back to this core area of these things that you love to do that provide for you and kind of letting go of that vision and embracing another one. So I think, at least for me, this year is all about really bringing in a positive mindset, cultivating habits that just helped me feel more fulfilled in all of my areas of life. And I would imagine everyone listening is feeling the same thing. So if they're listening, vision, they're like, okay, yes, I want to do this, but how? Do you have maybe a few action steps or a checklist or something as we kind of close out to help everyone move from a place of stress, anxiety around money, careers, their life, whatever it might be, into this place of feeling a little bit more ease, a little bit more centered, a little bit more balanced.

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I mean, my approach all of this time was always being very clear about my financial situation. And when I was growing up, my mom always said, cut your coat according to the cloth you have, so cut your coat according to the cloth you have. And in those days, people wore tailored suits. So what's she meant was, depending on how much cloth you bought, that's the only type of coat that you could make. And so you can only make decisions in your life based on the financial platform that you have available, and it's not going to be somebody else's. Right? At the end of the day in this society, we're always looking at the neighbor or looking at somebody else and saying, well, why don't I have what they have? Forget about that. That's just a waste of time. What do you have? What's available to you? And are you living within those means? And so when I thought that I might do a startup and I wanted to exit a corporate job to do a startup, I probably started planning for that decision two years prior to my actual exit. I knew I was frustrated, I knew I might do something different, but I started financially planning for that. So that means diligently putting money away, diligently investing, and also realizing what is the runway that I need to do a startup company, what are my expenses and how many months of expenses do I have saved up for that? So I think always being very aware of the financial platform that then allows you to make the choices, I think that was a big thing for me. And even now I'm able to live this life and be an executive coach, making probably a fifth of what I made in my corporate days, but still very comfortable because I'm always very clear about what is my budget, what are expenses, how much am I making, how much am I making off investments from those decisions prior? So I think it's having that keen eye towards finances is probably the biggest thing.

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Well, this has been so amazing Vish. Thank you for sharing all your wisdom taking us on this journey. I would love for you to tell everyone listening if they want to connect with you, if they want to pick up a copy of your book the Business Casual Yogi, where do they go?

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So The Business Casual Yogi is available at any of your bookstores, amazon. You can buy it on Amazon easily. And the independent bookstore is carried as well. And then to find me, my website is Head and So head as in your Head and Or you can just Google my name, Vishatterjee and you'll find me on the web.

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I know the idea of yoga and.

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Meditation, it doesn't seem on the surface.

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Like those things help you be better.

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With your money and help you get closer to your goals. But I'm telling you they do. Money is not just about the numbers in your accounts. Being good with your money is about how you interact with the money you have. Yoga and meditation. As Vish talked about, there are mechanisms to help your brain chill the f out, get centered and tame some of your money stress, even just a few minutes a day really does help. So why not give it a try? Like what can it hurt? If you want to learn more about Vish, you can find his book The Business Casual Yogi anywhere books are sold and his website is Head and where you can learn more about him and all of his amazing programs. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with someone else who you know needs.

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To bring in a little balance this year. As always, you can head to the.

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Show notes for all those links to our episode guests as well as the sponsors who make this show possible. I'll see you back here in a few days for a brand new episode.