Making Conversations about client acquisition Count

Published by Making Conversations Count
[] Read more

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(190) )}

What are your specialties when it comes to helping your clients and supporting each other?

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(5324) )}

I think we're very complementary in that I am very process driven and I give people very clear instructions on what they need to do to if they want to succeed.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(5324) )}

The German side,

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(5324) )}

that's my Germanic side, and that sometimes can be a little bit I don't want to say off putting, but sometimes tricky, because people need a bit of a warmer touch.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(27830) )}

Direct, isn't it?

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(29468) )}

Yeah, it's yin and yang. Right. So you need to, on the one hand, give people the clear instructions on what they need to do, because, as you yourself know very well, outbound is a numbers game to a point. Right. You do need to connect with people on a human level. I'm not a fan of spamming and doing just cold call where you just pitch them right away, none of that. But it is also a numbers game. If you start super friendly conversations, but you only start ten a month, you're not going to get results. And so that's why I sometimes need to push my clients to do a little bit more. When I say, what's your plans for the next week? And they say, ten calls or ten outbound conversations on LinkedIn, I say, Maybe you want to do a little bit more. And so my goal is to give them the instructions, the how to, but as I said, I can be a little bit harsh. And that's why, at some point, we realized how and I have our own coaching clients, why wouldn't we have her to help people with the more personal stuff? So that's where your skills come in.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(89468) )}

Yeah, exactly. So we thought, well, maybe it's just a little bit too abrupt. You got to get the work done. That part is important because obviously the work doesn't get done if you don't put energy into it. So the train has to go running, but at the same time, you have to take care of what's going on in your life, what's happening with your mindset, what's happening in your family, like, what other conversations are actually taking your energy away from being fully present in the business and sometimes not taking care of that. I'm just thinking, No, I just got to work. Yeah, you got to work. But your mind is split into all these different conversations and if you don't take care of them, and if you don't take responsibility for all these conversations and stories you're creating in your head, your business is going to end up paying for it and your family. So how is that really going to work out? I told Michal, well, we're working on two different businesses, we're just splitting like this. How about we just join? I can help the client with the need. I'm a personal trainer and I also have a certification in nutrition coaching, so I said, I can help them with that if they need that I can help. If it's moms, I can help them. Like how can you run your household in a more efficient way so you can be a mum, a wife and a business owner? Because I have to split myself in all these ways. So I have ways in which I make things work better and easier for us. The mindset and the identity. Like how do we identify ourselves? And like the same things that you speak to Rob about which I was just like oh, my world, the stories, what do you create? Like how does that take you in different places? How do you need to speak to yourself? Because I'm all about that conversation. Right? So it's been a quite interesting journey to be able to just separate those different sides of the business and being able to help clients from different sides because life is business.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(198944) )}

Well, it sounds like you've got the perfect formula and when you know that you're doing something in alignment with your own true values and then as a family in your own values and that comes through into your business and of course that also leaks into your clients lives. So you're creating this domino effect, aren't you? Through everything that you do by leaving breadcrumbs everywhere?

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(228670) )}

Yes. It's an interesting thing where the personal and the business side are so profoundly connected that on the one hand you have to lead by example that you show up in the way how you want to be positioned. And I'm slightly wondering how I can turn this into the topic of also creating an alter ego for yourself which is the thing that Anna is so good at. And this is one of the most profound things that I've learned from her because yes, you want to show up authentically as yourself but you also need to want to grow and become a better version of yourself. And that is the thing that I think us the way we interact privately, not even in front of our clients. But I think that the leaks into our conversations with our clients because Ana helps me to be more kind, more gentle. I maybe influence her in a way of being more structured and process driven. And with that we achieved this balance of helping our clients to yes, to take care of themselves on a personal level but also to not allow personal things to impede you on your mission. That's the thing because I think the biggest obstacle that many solopreneurs have is that the personal life leaks into their work to an extent where they are completely paralyzed and cannot do the work. We've had several clients like that where personal issues are so debilitating that although they signed up, they paid and they are gung ho about it. One month, two months later something happens that paralyzes them and we don't want that to happen. And I hope that by providing these two angles on the one hand, the I don't want to say good cop, bad cop, but it's a little bit like that where I say, do the bloody work, and Anna says, yes, but take care of yourself too. That through this yin yang process and the fact that we both have the trust of our clients, we get them to get the results.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(353870) )}

Do you find, though, as well, there's an analogy, if I can put my teeth back in, that I heard, and it's actually, you might want to go back and listen. Rob Beg, I love Rob. I call him my future Rob because I'm married to a Rob. So when I'm talking about Rob, sometimes they go, it doesn't sound like your Rob. I'm like, Oh, no, we're talking future Rob, because he's had such a profound effect on what I'm looking at now and those desires and those goals that you're talking about that your clients are working on a month or in two months time, and then something happens. His analogy was quite simple. It was like trying to put new wine in an old wine bottle. And I could kind of understand that. In actual fact, when you're trying to put something new on top of what could potentially be a full glass, things are just going to go awry, you're going to make a mess, you're going to spill some. And I certainly realized that there have been moments through life, career, individual circumstances where I've noticed in reflection, that feeling of uncomfortableness or that fear that challenged me was because there was something new going on. I was having to get rid of something old. It's got to chuck away those jeans that have got holes in the knees for a new pair. It's time to upgrade. So I can certainly see why when you say on your social media profiles, we're going to help you until you succeed, however long it takes, because life isn't that formulaic that in two months of doing this course, we'll fix you.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(454370) )}

Yes, it is. And I see this also being one of the main sticking points that people get with the typical coaching programs that they get in, which are geared for volume, right? You need to come in, there's a content portal, there's a community and all of that. But effectively, when it comes to the quality coaching that you're going to get, you have one, maybe two shots. If your first version, first iteration of your business that you come in and want help with, if your first major initiative and new campaign you want to set up, if that doesn't work, you then can get some help, get some coaching, maybe try a second one. But by then the time is over. Usually it's like laid out for six months, maybe sometimes a year. I made these mistakes myself, right? I just had the program, and at some point it was over and people didn't get their results. And I was like, Okay, but it's over now. So I started implementing this thing of, listen, you will be able to stay in until you have at least three times your money back, but I also need you to do the work. This is again where the yin and yang comes, right? So we guarantee you that you will get your results, which are defined as a minimum of three times your money back. But that's the kind of the care, the gentle side of things. We will help you until you succeed. And here comes the slightly bad cop bit... But you have to do the work. It's like most people underestimate the amount of work that it takes to get a business either off the ground or just from a proof of concept. You've had a few clients from your network referrals, but you now really want to set up client acquisition systems. People totally underestimate the amount of work that is required there. And so I say, yes, you will remain in the program as long as you need to, but you have to do the work, which in our case is content commenting, being active, building your tribe and doing outbound. And you cannot self care your way out of that.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(567932) )}

So it's a question for Anna then, really, because the self care thing and the kindness thing, whilst Michael says, go do the work, what's your approach to them being able to do the work and still be kind to themselves?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(582410) )}

So this is where the concept of creating an alter ego comes in, because, for example, I will be doing a call with one of our clients and we will be talking about miscarriage, because the power of being able to reframe what happens to you in life is going to be the main fuel that can really kick start you into getting into action and reframing how something negative can really be the positive for you. So instead of being stopped when you're having a face in your life with your wife, where things are just not working out, all right, how can I use this to my advantage? How can I flip this? How can I reframe this so that I can be a different person, be a different partner to my wife so we can get through this? Instead of, oh, my marriage is probably going to fall apart, so I should just focus on my energy, on business. How is that going to help? You went through a miscarriage. How can you reframe laws to feed the fire and help you move forward? Instead of you being stuck in the victim mentality, you change your story and you say, I'm stronger. You're going to create that alter ego where the alter ego is going to have those qualities that we might not directly describe ourselves as now. So the moment we might be feeling that we're weak, I'm weak, I'm at a loss. My body, what is happening with me? Instead of doing that, you flip that around and you think, what are those qualities that can really elevate those things that I'm feeling right now? So you flip things to your advantage and then you're able to use that energy, use that alter ego. Become and act like that person. Not even become act like that person. Because when we need to become, it means that there's a stretch that we need to meet and that means that there's a lot of energy and there's a lot of change and push and pull, right? Like this is so weird. But if you just act like a person that you need to be in that moment to sort of survive that moment for the time being, while you're still understanding why you're in pain, why things are not working in the business, why things are not working in your personal life, then you can really just do that. Like you guys were talking about in the podcast. You change your conversation and then you say, I'm planting the flags, right? Like you said, I'm planting flags. So you're constantly getting excited. Like, I'm creating my best life, I'm creating my best life. I got this. Life is testing me. But guess what? I got this. So you create a completely new paradigm of how you see life. So that essentially can't really stop you. It can only empower you. Whatever you bring life, I'm ready. Because your alter ego is in charge yourself. The parts of us where we might feel that weakness, it doesn't have to be as a weakness. You can still reserve it and it can still be intact. Because that alter ego is acting as that person you need to become. So you become that person and you keep creating, so you keep climbing.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(762454) )}

I love the fact that we live in an imaginary reality, that there's just endless summits. So when I think of a bad situation and how to handle that, you gave the example there if something's not happening well with my husband or my partner. So I'll just go and focus on the business. In actual fact, what's happening there is this suppression that will leak. Because we've got this leakage, haven't we? No matter what it is that we're doing, the trick that I've learned is, okay, so things are not going well with my partner. I think it might have to leave them. This is what our intellect tells us, isn't it? It's not going well. So what will happen? The self fulfilling prophecy might be that we will split up. Well, do you know what? If you carry on thinking like that, you probably will because you're kind of meeting that trouble half way. Whereas if you just say to yourself, well, is that true? Is it my partner or is it me.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(762454) )}


{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(762454) )}

But it is about giving yourself that awareness in any given situation, isn't it? As to what is causing the feelings that you're going through.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(842910) )}

Yeah, because if you don't get to the source. That thing is always going to continue to happen in every relationship with partners or in every relationship with whoever becomes your client in the future. It's a pattern, right. And all those things have roots, and your brain doesn't want you to see them. It hides them so well because it keeps you protected and safe, that this is the world you've created. And so it wants it to stay that way. So if you don't dig deep, everything in your life is going to continue to suffer. So, yeah, the inquiry always has to happen. It's a constant. Asking, digging, taking out. Get the weeds down. Don't let them grow.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(881556) )}

We recently moved in the previous house. Our garden was full with clover. And that was a wonderful analogy because we were at some point we let it just grow. And then at some point our garden looked like a moon crater landscape because we just had one day decided to rip it all out and to just start all over again. And this was a wonderful analogy. And we use it, of course, for content because it's such a bright and beautiful and juicy analogy with this kind of stuff that you mentioned. It's the equivalent of mind weeds. Again, this famous quote of whether you think you can or you can't. You're right. All of that.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(918876) )}

Henry Ford has got a lot to answer for.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(921450) )}

Exactly. And this has been actually a recent topic between Anna and myself because we said that we have to make sure that clients who come in, who have these kinds of beliefs already coming in, this kind of my equivalent of mama and my relationship, I'm likely going to get a divorce. Well, if you think that, then it's going to happen. Similarly, just now, speaking to a client, by the time the podcast will go out, it's going to have resolved itself one way or another. Talking to a potential client who has a hard time believing in his ability to build his business in the way how he wants to, let's say, okay, he believes that he doesn't have enough skills to transition into the area where he needs to go. I very much believe in it, but he doesn't. And so that's a very tricky thing because there's only so much we can do with our stuff, with our instructions. If the fundamental belief is not there, if such a powerful weed is sitting in your mind, I will not be successful. We will not be successful helping this client

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(921450) )}

Not if he does not have the willingness. Right. Digging all the stuff out takes time and a lot of inquire. So if you're unwilling to search where the route is, you're going to continue to struggle.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(996110) )}

And I think it can be worked with in terms of simply being self aware. You can at least mitigate it because, you know, there is this thing, this limiting belief that I have. And so just by being aware of it. Ah, here it's coming up again. That's why having a coach is good, because you come on a call and you mentioned something like, oh, I started this conversation with this prospect and it didn't go anywhere. And then making conclusions from that, oh, I think my offer is not good enough. Well, what are you basing this on?

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(1026996) )}

We imagine these conversations and we haven't had them yet, don't we? We actually got the outcome in place of and it becomes the outcome.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1037010) )}


{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(1037796) )}

This is an interesting question because I know how I've had to resolve this for myself, but I get personally quite invested in my clients. And there's been a couple of occasions where that has actually been detrimental to me and it's affected me because I've taken on how they've been feeling about certain things, which has got nothing to do with my actual work and the delivery of things, but I just genuinely can feel for them in a situation. So how do you look after yourselves when you're supporting others?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1076868) )}

This was a hard lesson for me to learn because I didn't really grow up having secure attachment. I grew up with two Hispanic parents, and in the Hispanic community, everything is really you just depend on everything and everyone in your house and you have to help each other because you're blood. So I grew up with this feeling that I needed to help everybody. And it wasn't until I worked on my attachments that I had to bring out what is a secure attachment. And this was actually before I met Michal. I literally put it in my living room, put it on the wall, and I said, this is what I need to become. And I kept reading it and reading it and reading it, and I had to sort of build that fence around my garden where I said, these are my boundaries and no one can get through that fence unless I open the door for them to come in. So when it comes to clients, sometimes the reason why clients have such a hard time is because they do not know how to explain to their partners or even their own clients what their boundaries are. Because they feel that if they do not comply with everyone's wishes, then they're not going to be liked. And then again, that's a deeper issue. Right. So it comes back to us as running our business. If someone is not doing the work and they know that I'm invested in them because we're having weekly calls or I'm asking them how they're doing, but if they are doing what they want and I see where they're heading, then at some point I just have to say, all right, I have my boundaries, that I give what I can and I try to give my best to them, but if they're not going to do the work, I cannot let this affect my life because then that runs into my family and then that depletes my energy. So if I cannot be whole, I cannot help other clients. So I'm not serving anyone. I'm doing a disservice to my family. I'm doing a disservice to other clients because of one or two people. I can't do that. So I think it's about having those boundaries really set in place. And when I get to that place where it's like, why are they not doing this? Or why are they not in touch now? Why did they go silent? I have to remind myself, well, this happens to you. You're a human.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(1211430) )}

This is where some get blurred between the difference between responsibility and accountability. Who's responsible for what and who needs to be accountable for what. So long as those guidelines are clear, then you know when you're not doing it yourself, don't you? And you can tell when a client's not doing it, you know what the results should be at a certain part of the process. So if the results are not there, you know the work is not being done.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1242292) )}

I think this is one of the areas of development for me because I tend to get very invested in their success to a point where I probably might even be hindering their success by doing too much for them. For example, by being too available. Respond to a message that they send me. If they get used to that, they can contact me at any time of the day and I will respond. I will help them. I will jump, stop doing what I'm doing and help them edit a post that they plan to publish. Then I'm creating a certain level of a dependency on me. And this is not the point of coaching. You don't want to create a dependency on you as a coach. It needs to be that they learn to help themselves. And for this, the structured processes. Of course, we have our calls at a set time, prepare your stuff for the time and don't expect that your coach will actually do all the work for you. Sometimes I have one client who is really struggling with putting out content on LinkedIn, and my response used to be generally that okay, come on, let's go on a call and share your idea with me. I'm going to write that post for you so you see how it's done. I can do that once, but then the client needs to take that and iterate on it himself and needs to do that and become better at it. Because I think what I tend to do is that I then take them, grab them by their hand too tightly and lead them down a certain path which hinders their own self development. They need to go through the pain and not rely on the daddy that is going to help them fight the monster. They need to fight the monster themselves.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1242292) )}

Like children. We don't want to make them too dependent on us because then they're not going to know how to solve the problem themselves.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(1348252) )}

It's human nature, though, isn't it, to take the easiest path. And for you, Michal, a lot of that would be, well, it's just easy for me to do that for you. It's not until you realize that actually it could be easier for me to do it, but not in the long run. And it's that realization that you've had to go, okay, so what are the questions back to that client now? Going, well, what did we do when we did it the first time? You were stuck like this. And to be able to remind and reflect and to be questioning. Because ultimately, when we're coaching, our clients know this stuff. They need some support, they need some handholding, and they need somebody to actually question and call them out to do it. Because it's there already, isn't it? It's just like you say, there's a difference between holding the hand and then finishing the homework for them.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1399996) )}

Yeah. How are you going to deal with this next time it happens? I can help you now, but how are you going to deal with this next time?

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1406848) )}

Yeah, I do need to take myself out of it, and I think you are right in that it is something that comes easy to me to just jump on a call, let's work through it, let's work through it. I'll help you do it. Right. But then I'm robbing them of their autonomy when I do that too often. It's a delicate and intricate balance that we have to strike here.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(1430908) )}

Well, that's why you've got Anna. It's like anything, isn't it? And I say this many a time on the show is perfection exists. I'm shrugging my shoulders, I'm pulling a funny face, but ultimately perfection exists. Creation exists. It's just a question of what we're going to be creating now. If we're not used to doing something, don't get born and immediately stand up on our legs and walk like animals in the wild, do we? We don't sit in a nest and then fly within a very short space of time. Our development is a lot longer and we have to practice so many different things to become the rounded human being from two years old where communication starts. So we should never expect to just do something once and be an expert in those things. It does take time, and it all comes from our own experiences as well.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1491582) )}

Especially as entrepreneurs. Right? You have to be like a full circle human. You have to develop so many other things that you probably wouldn't experience if you have a job, because you have one task to do. But when you have your own business, there's no gaps. You can leave gaps or you have to hire somebody else.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(1508932) )}

Absolutely. I mean, look at your own journey. Two separate businesses doing two separate things and then realizing that actually there was an alignment and there was a synergy that could enhance not just your lives, but your clients lives as well. Look at now the new content course creation that you're going to be doing to help people in speaking to existing networks and then to grow that with people that they don't know in their communities. That is the growth, isn't it? So you will be learning along because you've just created this new idea. But ultimately you've been doing these things for so long that it's kind of like ironing out the creases of different things because you're trying it and you're going to be dealing with people. So everybody is going to have their own expectations and ideas. So what we've talked about in terms of boundaries, that's great because everybody's going to know exactly what to expect and you have a real good vision of what they can achieve by going through those courses. So there's proof.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1576254) )}

Absolutely. And the boundaries are so important already to be set at the beginning. A friend of mine had that with his dad who was running a business and he told me that one of the things that his dad does right away from the start is that he really is very strict and brusque and bordering on unfriendly so that the tone is set. And the employees who come in, it's sort of like a blue collar work, construction property management and so the people he gets in are very like blue collar. And if he has a reputation of being a very exacting, precise boss who's not very friendly, he's not going to do much chitchat with you. You start out on this level of borderline respect. If you're too pally, too chummy, then the risk is much higher that it's much more difficult to then get if they don't perform, to become a little bit stricter with them. And my friend really told me is that he's able to then ease off once he sees that individual people perform really well, that the expectations are set. But this boundary setting that he does is so crucial that he starts out as the stern, brusque, ordering or unfriendly guy who then is able to ease off rather than the other way around. So I think this is one of the things that we need to not in a brusque way because we're in a very different business, but we also need to set the expectations at the beginning when we onboard a new client, that we really communicate to them clearly that your result, despite the guarantee that we offer you, your result is entirely in your hands. We will help you, we will support you, but it really is up to you whether you make it happen or not. So in terms of boundary setting, I couldn't agree more.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(1685620) )}

We like to ask everybody that comes on the show for a conversation that created a turning point. So I'm even more intrigued this time because I'm talking to a couple who run a business together, so I'm going to let you have the floor and share that conversation with us.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1704832) )}

The funny thing is that this conversation also was between us. So you have a couple of conversations. Actually, the life changing conversation was me telling Ana, at some point I need to backtrack here. We met online, but not in the way how people meet online these days. We met in a Facebook group of another coaching program. We were simply students of that person, both entrepreneurs and getting our own coaching program there. And so we met in that group and we started talking. We became accountability partners and this meant a daily Whatsapp, voice memos? Are you on track? Are you doing the work?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1704832) )}

And on different continents.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1744998) )}

From different continents. I was in London and Ana was in Florida.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(1747938) )}

Michael was wagging his finger at you.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1755290) )}

With the mindset, which is where he's getting at.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1757720) )}

Exactly. And I at some point hit a rough patch in my business to a point where I just couldn't figure it out, couldn't get clients. It was really tough. And so I talked to Ana about I was wondering if I should just sell my London flat to move into something cheaper so that at least I could solve a temporary cash flow issue and survive. I expected that she would support me in this idea, at least that she would tell me, yeah, great, it's an option that you have in your back pocket. And what she said next was that turning point. She said, get rid of the back door. There is no plan B. If you keep thinking about plan B, plan A is not going to work out. And if you even keep thinking about this all the time, you are cultivating the weeds in your mind's garden. You constantly do this, and then every time you talk to a prospective new client, you are allowing this conversation, the inner conversation, to dominate your thinking as you are talking to that client, it will influence the conversation. They will sense it because you're coming at it from a place of lack rather than abundance. Okay, I'm summarising a very long monologue that I got from Ana at some point into a couple of sentences here. And that was such a life changer for me because I could see how this conversation that I kept having, not only is the plan B wrong, don't even consider it.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(1757720) )}

But you're allowing it to become an excuse.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1849858) )}

Yes, exactly. This part of your conversation is similar to as if you are eating Twinkies for breakfast. It's bad food for you. So even thinking about these things is even the process, not even entertaining it out loud, but even thinking about it is already poisoning you. And that was a big mind shift for me to a point where fast forward six months and we decided to get married. So I'm fast forwarding quite considerably here.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(1878740) )}

There's now roses in the garden!

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1887636) )}

So that conversation was, I think, in January 2019 or so. And in April 2019, we met for the first time. And in August, I asked Ana if she wants to marry me. Here we are. Already three of us.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1887636) )}

Yeah. We also brought the dog from Florida to Austria.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(1910370) )}

I would say that that's a good way of sowing seeds and seeing a good harvest.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1916250) )}

Yeah, absolutely. So that was definitely a life changing conversation for me.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(1920444) )}

So for you, then, Ana, when it came to answering Michal's question, was it just obvious that that was what was going on because of the way that you were sort of in dialogue with one another?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(1931208) )}

I was just so devoted that he would just not do something stupid like that. I was like, what are you thinking? You want to have a second plan? Because your first plan, like you said, like the self fulfilling prophecy, you want to have a second plan in your pocket just in case you want to sell the only thing you have invested, really, like your apartment in London, you want to sell that. So then you have the money, then you feel secure, and then you think, life is also going to change. That's not going to change anything. What needs to change is your mentality. You need to change the way that you're thinking and looking at things. Oh, wait, that thing is going to chase you everywhere. No matter where you move, it's always going to come with you. So it's not the situation that's the problem, it's your view of the problem. So I was just going at it. I was going at it and I made sure that all the strengths, as you're coaching someone and you let people speak and you just listen to them, you learn to see what are the strengths, what are the strings you need to pull in order to sort of help them maneuver them into the right direction. So I just start pulling the strings with the things I was telling him and then things just slowly start playing into his mind and falling in place and saying, yes, this has been the thing that has been running my life and my mentality about my business for some time, and this is the mentality that has gotten me to the place where I'm at now. So if I do not change that, nothing else will change. So it was a crucial moment for both of us because we were both building our businesses and I had a full time job back then and I really wanted things to change. And I really had seen Michal as a man with values that I respected. And I saw him, I was like, I'm going to marry this man. Like, literally. I saw his picture and I was like, I just have a feeling that he's the one. And I told my mom, that's my husband and she said, Okay, act like it. And I said, Okay, cool. We'll see. And so in the back of my mind, I had this plan where I was like, I have one plan. So this is part of the plan that things need to change in order for us to work, because I would not be able to marry a man who's, like, with this mentality, because then I will jump on the same boat. So it's all part of the plan. Right. What strings do you need to move in order to make the things change? And so that this is the woman I'm going to marry.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2080230) )}

As you can see, in the end, all coaching is manipulation.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2085930) )}

Hey, it was to your advantage.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2087498) )}

It was to my advantage.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2089110) )}

We both gained a lot, right?

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2090544) )}

Yes, absolutely.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(2092470) )}

As an outsider looking in, I would say that it comes from a place of love that you'd invested. You'd seen something quite special in each other. Not just that accountability, because you can be accountable to somebody and give lip service. But clearly you shared on a much deeper level than just, have I done the work? Yes, I have. And this is what my next plan is. You've opened your hearts, really, to talking about life and much more than just what it was that you met for.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2127818) )}

Absolutely. That vision. Right. Like, sharing a vision with someone, you got to be able to be a team. If there's no team in us, there's no future.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(2137530) )}

So front doors only? No back doors allowed.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2144850) )}

Yes. To be fair, that is really daunting. And this is like the drug that we give them after they've been with us for a while. So it's not the thing that we advertise. Hey, when you join us, you have to make it work. And so, no, it's more easy. You have the choice, but ultimately cutting off options and burning the ships. Right. Hernan Cortes did this. They burn the ships once you arrive somewhere so that you don't retreat. That is the thing that I did that Anna helped me do, and that has really brought us to where we are right now.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2175648) )}

Right, but then there's a reframe. You see, that's where I've hidden. But then there's the reframe. It's not about like, we won't let them in when we won't let them in. The secrets when they come in. We will tell them later. No, it is a reframe. It's not if you only have front doors, you're going to work it out because you're going to make everything work to your advantage. Reframe.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2198550) )}

Fair enough.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(2202670) )}

Well, see, front door to me just says freedom, and a back door just says escape. And I know that, oh, God, my own upbringing, my mom is the master of running away. So in every situation that I've ever applied, I will always be looking at, so if it doesn't work out, what is my plan be, then it's being conscious enough, then, isn't it, to go well do you know what? I really hope it doesn't come to that. You've got to trust in yourself that it's not going to come to that, because that's really not what you want.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2235592) )}

I mean, imagine if you would have carried that conversation into your marriage, because my mom was the same way and I had to just completely cut that off and create, like, boundaries, where it's like, I'm creating myself as a different woman. I'm creating myself as I say I'm going to be, not as the women in my life and my family have been. So it's a constant recreation of who you need to be, not who your ancestors were. If it comes from a negative place. Or run away.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(2235592) )}

This comparisonitis can really paralyse us, can't it? We will compare ourselves to others and say, but we're unique, and then in the next breath we'll go, but they're earning X amount of money, so I should charge that amount of money. Well, why should it be the same if you're unique? Life is full of questions. You too, and you've just given me lots more. But I've really enjoyed chatting with you both to understand where you've come from, where you're going and how you help. We always encourage listeners to carry on the conversation, so, of course we're going to stick a load of stuff on the show notes and on the website and what have you. But for people that have got their listening gear on right now, where's the best place for them to come and find you? If they want to hang out.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2235592) )}

Just find us on LinkedIn. That's the easiest way. Michal Bohanes, Ana Bohanes. And we can start the conversation from there. There's plenty of resources that we offer, but you find that all on the LinkedIn page. So best to connect with us there, say where you have challenges and maybe we can meet for a little ChinWAG, as you like to say.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(2329060) )}

Yes, because, like with all ChinWAGs, you just never know where that conversation will lead.