Making Conversations about professional etiquette Count

{( speakerName('A') )}

First question because I have got lots. So I'm stumbling a little bit because it's like, which one do I ask first? How did you get into the business of being polite?

{( speakerName('B') )}

Well, I have always had an interest in having parties and how we're affecting other people with our relationships and what the right thing to do is, because we never want to do the wrong thing, etiquette wise. And so I just studied it and then I took a course from the Emily Post Institute, which is headquartered in Burlington, Vermont. Emily Post great great grandchildren still run the institute. And I took a course and it totally changed what I decided or what I thought I wanted to do with the rest of my life. And it just opened up a whole new world where it's a study of people. And one thing that I learned is it's not about memorizing a bunch of rules. It's about taking every interaction we have throughout the day and trying our best to pick the best options for the way we treat people, for the things we say and the things we do and how we do them. So it's more of a study than the set of rules that you can learn and be able to navigate every situation.

{( speakerName('A') )}

Now, you've just reminded me of something that I've seen that stuck in my head, and this is that quite often something happens and we react very quickly. We've got these set of responses that are conditioned to us, yet the way that it was explained was to pause. So something can happen, but stop, take a moment, and then instead of just reacting, you can come back with reason or absolutely. And that makes it perfect sense when it comes to some of the conversations I've had with people where I've maybe said something and they have deliberately.

{( speakerName('B') )}

Kind.

{( speakerName('A') )}

Of sat and you can see them deliberating what to say in response than what was the first thing that came into their head. So it's really a very good sign of good manners, isn't it?

{( speakerName('B') )}

Yes. To show that you are thinking about what's going to happen next. So there's three principles of etiquette, and the first one is consideration. And that is where this comes in. You're not only considering the people around you, you're considering your options in a situation. So that's where you stop and you think and a lot of our rudeness, somebody would say to us, well, what were you doing? Or you would say to somebody else, what were you thinking? And the person will say, Well, I wasn't. And that's so true because I believe people do not intend to be rude, that rudeness happens when they're not thinking and they're not being considerate.

{( speakerName('A') )}

So those responses do need to be considered. What's rule number two, then? Kristi?

{( speakerName('B') )}

The second principle is respect. And so that is then, okay, here are my options. I can do A or B or C and so which one of those is going to show respect to the other person? And then that's what helps you decide what your response or what your action would be is the one that shows respect and has a chance to build a relationship, even though you might be in a difficult situation or one that you would think would be people would be in opposite positions. But there is always a solution that can fix the problem and keep the relationship intact.

{( speakerName('A') )}

That's really good advice because like you say, we don't want to upset people, do we? And often what we say and how we react or how we respond will leave an indelible mark.

{( speakerName('B') )}

Yes. What kind of moments stand out to you in your lifetimes where you were shocked or you were frightened or those big emotion moments stick out to you? Well, being offended and feeling like you're not worthy of proper care, or somebody taking the time to say the right words to you or any of those things you remember.

{( speakerName('A') )}

Those things they do tend to creep up to the surface a lot faster than a lot of the happy memories that we would have, don't they? So, following on from consideration and respect, then, Kristi, what's the final principle?

{( speakerName('B') )}

It is honesty. And sometimes people think, oh, to be honest, sometimes that's rude. But we're not talking about brutal honesty, we're talking about benevolent honesty. And that's doing something in an honest way, but you're also doing it in a confident way. So whatever you considered your action, you decide which one was the respectful thing to do. Now, you're going to carry out that action with honesty and that also means confidence in your position of what you've taken. Because if you're wondering if you should shake somebody's hand, well, you can do a couple of things. You can say, I'm not back to handshaking yet. You can shake their hand or you can say nothing at all. Now, saying nothing at all makes the whole situation really awkward, awkward to get off on. So if you decide, okay, I'm going to shake this person's hand, I really don't know that I'm going to feel up to it, but I'm going to do it anyway. Do that with confidence. Nothing's worse than not shaking somebody's hand and telling them why, then just kind of a half of a shake, a tentative kind of thing. So when you decide what you're going to do, then you do that with honesty and confidence.

{( speakerName('A') )}

That's good advice. And you've said about in person there with a handshake, what etiquette changes have you seen with people coming online instead? Because I do believe that hybrid working and meeting and networking is going to stay. What's been the biggest show and tell?

{( speakerName('B') )}

Well, just a glimpse at how people live their lives behind doors. Combing hair is really good. I would suggest not wearing pajamas. I've been on meeting calls where people are smoking or vaping during a virtual meeting, call for work, keeping your mics off. In my prior job, I had a meeting at least once a day, virtual meeting at least once a day, probably for an hour, and I saw it all in those 16 months or so.

{( speakerName('A') )}

Goodness. So really, boundaries have slipped, haven't they, in terms of this is my home and these are my rules. Not that I'm showing up to be respectful of the rules of work. The workplace.

{( speakerName('B') )}

Have your background clear. I mean, you're always giving an impression. And which impression do you want to give? One that I haven't washed my dishes in a week and my hairs in a towel because clearly I just got out of the shower, even though it's noon and I've been supposedly working since nine. You can communicate a lot and it's different because we're not used to people being in our homes like that. And so I think the best thing people can do is just act like you would at work and dress like you would at work. You can't go wrong with that. I don't think anyone's ever going to talk badly about a person because they overdressed for a work meeting. A tax is probably too much and might raise some questions. But what makes you look serious and that what makes you look like you respect your job and you respect the other people who are in this virtual room with you.

{( speakerName('A') )}

I guess it's the difference between bringing the right and wrong attention to yourself, isn't it?

{( speakerName('B') )}

Right. Absolutely. If you want to be remembered at all, you want to be remembered for the right reasons, not the wrong reason.

{( speakerName('A') )}

Absolutely. I say this in the training that I do as well. It's a big topic at the moment, is pattern interrupts. So wanting to stand out and shake things up. And I've heard the advice being said, oh, yes, Mr. Customer, this is a cold call, so if you want to hang up, you can now. And I don't know about you, Kristi, but yes, that would interrupt my thinking patterns of whatever it was that I was doing. But is that really the best first impression you want to leave?

{( speakerName('B') )}

Right, we're back to these options. There's a million things you could say and that's maybe not the most effective to convey. What I'm about to tell you is important, and I believe it's important. Or you can just hang up on me either way.

{( speakerName('A') )}

Yeah. So, first impressions, having manners? What do you generally find yourself helping people with in business then? Kristi?

{( speakerName('B') )}

I think that people who are just starting out or they're new to a company, are a really good target audience for me, or companies who have people coming in. I think that as we get younger and younger generations in the workforce, they have grown up in less formal ways, which is honestly a great thing, because it is easier now than ever to stand out by using manners because we are in an informal world. So by using manners, by knowing what fort to use, by sending a thank you note, you can stand head and shoulders above competition. But I think that companies are hiring people who they may have gone to college and they may have those skills for the job, the hard skills, but it's the relationship skills and it's maybe image and it's the professional etiquette of things that make things go so much more smoothly, but that may be the part that they lack and they need a little bit of help on. So I can come in and help companies in training and if it's from how we're going to answer the phone or how we're going to greet people, when we're going to send a thank you card and how we're going to send that thank you card, what's on the email signature. Hacking those expectations lets people know. And these aren't all things that would rise to an HR level necessarily, but if you go to a store and somebody greets you halfway nice, somebody else doesn't pay any attention to you, somebody else answers a call when you're talking to them, you'll likely never go back. And those are three pretty minor things on their own. If that's going to be somebody's impression of your business, that's a major strikeout.

{( speakerName('A') )}

What's been the most unusual situation that you found yourself in, in terms of somebody needing help and having solved the problem?

{( speakerName('B') )}

There are professional etiquette situations that pop up that you can't even fathom necessarily, like oh my gosh, and these things happen in real life. This is real life stuff. I think that one time I had a company that wanted to come to me and they had a group of people at work who were acting insular and so they were really kind of a childish thing and it was a bit of a frat party that had gone on for too long and they needed immediate help because they had a really big opportunity coming up and it was almost an emergency situation. And the problem when you get to that is you're teaching people how to act just to get through a moment at that point. So it's so much better to start in the beginning before things get out of control and it started to seem normal to people. And so you don't want to be in a situation where you're telling people the whoopi cushion is not something that you can bring to the office. It sounds like a really fun place to work if you are a certain personality, but if you're not, it would have really just been hell to live amongst.

{( speakerName('A') )}

This sounds chaotic and I guess there's a certain amount of discipline, isn't it, that's needed and there is a time and a place for you to have those kinds of jokes going on. Yeah. So redrawing the boundaries for them. Kristi was that kind of I think.

{( speakerName('B') )}

That we went really basic with that. Here's what is acceptable and here's why it's not acceptable. And language is a huge yes, it can be so off putting. And there's a poll that was done that 80% of the people dislike curse words being used at work, so very few people like it. Now, I'm saying more than that. 20% of people cuss people do it and it happens. But I think sometimes that F word, I've seen it used as a verb, an adjective, a noun. You know what? It can be used so many ways.

{( speakerName('A') )}

It's just a linking word.

{( speakerName('B') )}

And I just shudder every time I hear people use that word in any social situation. But in a work situation, it is absolutely unacceptable to have that kind of language. You never know who you're going to offend. It's just never okay. And it's really a good practice for people to get in to just not just don't say those words. No one will think any less of you by not saying those words in any situation. But I think that is one of the biggest problems in business today, is the language people think it's okay to use.

{( speakerName('A') )}

I think it comes back full circle to what you were saying about the informality these days as well, isn't it, Kristi, that using cuss words has become quite normalised? That if you were to challenge the whole workforce to stop actually saying it, they would perhaps be very surprised with themselves how often they have to stop themselves from saying it because they haven't even recognized that they're doing it themselves. And that awareness has been lost much the same as you're not going to walk around the office with a towel on your head, are you?

{( speakerName('B') )}

Right? There's just certain things you don't do, and this needs to become one of those things that you just don't do. And I think that's up to employers to say, we have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to that. And I think some places do have that policy, but you got to follow through with it. And the person who makes the policy has to follow it as well. Yeah, everything kind of comes from the top down. And what is okay behavior for the person at the top? Is what's going to be okay behavior for the person who just started.

{( speakerName('A') )}

No, you're right. I've been watching a sort of sitcom comedy. It's called God's favorite idiot. I don't know if you've seen it with Melissa McCarthy, and I feel there's a character in that called Frisbee and he's forever coming out. He just pops up when there's something inappropriate going on. Now we're watching that and laughing because it's just comical, but he's popping up to say none of that. And then, of course, he's challenged and they stand up to him and he goes, okay. And he goes off. So he's not following through. But it's quite pertinent, isn't it? That's actually just highlighting that that's what's going on.

{( speakerName('B') )}

Yes. Unfortunately, in civil behavior is trumpeted. How many times did we see about the Will Smith Chris Rock incident where he stalked him and we see all these incident. The social media that spreads is incidentally. You're halfway afraid to go on an airplane and say anything to anyone for fear that you're going to be on YouTube the next day or all over the news because somebody's going to we're in a time now that is very precarious. I mean, our feelings are just we're wearing them on the outside and I think people are easily agitated, offended, all of those things, but we just eat it up as a society.

{( speakerName('A') )}

I do agree with you, Kristi, that things blow up, don't they? And everybody has been empowered to have an opinion, yet there's no respect for other people's opinions too. Just because you've got an opinion doesn't mean that yours is the right and true one. That tolerance is fraying, isn't it? And the news and social media doesn't help that. I have to admit I have a policy myself. If I can't say anything nice, I'll say nothing at all. So when it comes to posting, everybody says that the feedback that I get is you're very positive and you're very encouraging and inspiring. Well, good. Because sometimes the things that I want to say, I have to stop and pause and actually stop myself from reacting so that my response isn't out there. Or you would know a completely different person and that would take away from everything that we work hard. And it is it's like that one post, isn't it? That an employer will see a CV that's absolutely bang on, this is the perfect candidate, this is likely to become a next VP or whatever. And they go looking on social media and they see them in a drunken heap cussing at somebody that's gone viral online. Are they going to get the job for one mistake?

{( speakerName('B') )}

Yeah, I would hope that we get to know the person. But if you have multiple candidates, you wouldn't even take the chance. You would just move on. And that's one thing. When people are job hunting, look at your social media profiles, clean them up. Even if you think you're not using your full name, you're using your first name, middle name or something, you are not hiding from anyone. People will still find you. And you really want to make sure that those are cleaned up before you do that. But also to what you said, Wendy, about posting positive things, I think that we need about 50 windy posts to counterbalance the one post that's super negative because that super negative post is going to get so much attention. It always makes me laugh when I see 3 million comments on something like the 3,000,001st person really thought they had something to add to this. So it just keeps getting more and more life and so even when we witness incivility, it affects us. And so I think hopefully the same thing happens for Positivity when we see that Positivity, hopefully that kindness can kind of have a ripple effect on us and go out as well. But I'm the same way. I really try to keep Post positive and of course, polite and sometimes it's hard because real people here, but I've also just I don't know that anybody's really counting on me for an opinion on any of the day's biggest, controversial things. And so I'm a safe spot for something else. And people know what kind of content they're going to get when they go to you see your social media or my social media. And I think we just have to carve out that place and be the place where people can come and kind of get away from some of that.

{( speakerName('A') )}

No, you're right, because it's been referenced before in conversations I've had with other guests. Kristi is that energy attracts energy. So sometimes if the Post is blowing up, people only add their reaction because they feel that they've got to follow that particular trend or pause for thought, isn't it? Social media is a big player in us all achieving things. So let's take it back to the plight company and what Kristi does. What's the one thing, do you think, that entrepreneurs and people that are starting out, what's the one thing that you see that's most common that they can put right? And what's your advice on that?

{( speakerName('B') )}

I really think that the biggest problem new people have to business is realizing how important and how powerful following up with people is. When I see somebody and somebody says, oh, they're the best person in their field for this, my first thought, without a doubt, is, I bet you they have an amazing system for following up with people, because that consistency and that getting to know people builds trust. And one thing we talked about at Emily Post was using the consideration, respect and honesty, all of those things build congruency and trust. And people want to do business with people that they trust. They want to do business with people that they have a relationship with. And so I'm not thinking, I'm just here for the sale, I'm just here for this ten minutes. I'm just here for this discovery call. But people would be amazed, the doors that would open to them if they just followed up with people in a genuine way.

{( speakerName('A') )}

Oh, you're so right, Kristi. It's one of the biggest failings that I see as well. Certainly my specialty is starting new relationships. So hello, you haven't heard of me before. I want to introduce myself and tell you all about how wonderful I am. And I always say it's not what you know or who you know, but what you know about them. So if you get to know that person and what their needs are, then you're perfectly primed for when the right time is. And there's no harm in just touching base because it's not about the sale. It could be that they've been on holiday or how was your holiday? It could be they were doing something over Thanksgiving. Did everybody turn up? It could be any kind of icebreaker that you want to use because you've gathered that information. So, yes, get that system in place. Definitely. That's where you're going to be winning ahead of everybody else who doesn't.

{( speakerName('B') )}

Absolutely. And in that follow up system, there should always be a thank you of some kind, an expression of gratitude, really. Gratitude is a whole other subject, but, man, is that a great way to live life. But have that as part of your system, a handwritten thank you note for opportunities and milestones. You email it or you text it and it's deleted. But you send somebody a card and it sits I have a pile of mine that sits in front of me and I don't know, it's just an amazing reminder. And if you can do that for somebody else and make them feel special and cared for, your chances of doing business with them are much higher.

{( speakerName('A') )}

No, I agree. In my office I've got the cards that I've received, and at the end of one of my workstations, there is the envelopes and the thank you cards and the stamps already, so that it's easy and quick for me to just go, I'm just going to send them a card.

{( speakerName('B') )}

And sometimes you just set a time aside on Thursdays if you're going to do thankful Thursdays, and you might not have had anything that stands out to you as something, you should send a thank you note. But it doesn't take long to think, no, I really could send a note to this person or that person, and it goes very far, and especially when it's so uncommon now to get that handy.

{( speakerName('A') )}

You've reminded me of something that I've not done for a while that perhaps ought to just sort of bring back into my sphere of thinking. And that would be at the end of the week, if there was somebody that had really gone above and beyond for me, that I would write them a recommendation on LinkedIn.

{( speakerName('B') )}

Yes. When we rate stores and we leave reviews, positive ones, that's another way that we can show gratitude and reflects well on yourself, too. You want to be associated with that positive thing. But we have a Walmart, and they do we'll take the groceries out to your car and you do the pick up. And the nicest kids, I don't know where they get them, but they are just the nicest, most friendly, polite kids, and they can't take a tip, which is what you would like to do to show your gratitude. But what you can do is you can go on their survey, mentioned their name, and that to them is worth more than the money and what's loud. But sometimes, even if it's not monetary, there's so many things that you can do to say thank you to people.

{( speakerName('A') )}

A shout out is a great thing, isn't it, Kristi? Even if you sit there and feel a little bit uncomfortable about basking in that little bit of glory. Because you don't do it for the glory, do you? In most instances, you do it because it's just how it's nice to be.

{( speakerName('B') )}

Right and it's nice to be on the receiving end of that as well. So I think that technology is sometimes a barrier for people in professional etiquette and paying attention to each other, but in this case, it's a great tool to use to be able to quickly and as quickly as you would write a negative review is as quickly as you should write a positive one. And I think that a negative review on things like that, it's just so worth a phone call. I think that things can get out of hand, and if it's really something that people need to know about, pick up the phone and just do it face to face. I think that it makes it too easy to hide behind the keyboard.

{( speakerName('A') )}

Yeah, just give them the opportunity to put things right. It's something that's one of my key principles is if you see it wrong, try and put it right. Don't wait for somebody else to do it. The power really is at you.

{( speakerName('B') )}

Right.

{( speakerName('A') )}

Time to get your conversation that counted. Cummon Kristi! I get really excited at this bit.

{( speakerName('B') )}

I kind of have a two part. One, I was researching classes and taking certifications and how I would get the training that I wanted to get. And so I was calling people who had been part of a program before and really had to use my reporting skills that I had before to find people who weren't necessarily who they were putting out there for it. So I found people and I was talking to them, and I'd get off the phone and I think, oh, my gosh, wow, they were so nice, they were so polite. And then I thought, that's the whole idea. This is what you're getting into. And so that was in my mind. And a few months later, I told my husband as I was working my old business, which was media, and I said, that's not a positive world. Now that I know that there is this world where people can be... the point is to be nice to people. And to make things go more smoothly for people. And it's really rooted in positivity. I said, I'm living in between those two worlds now, I said, And I just can't live in between the two worlds. I can't be happy at this thing that I've been doing for decades, knowing that something else is out there. And so that's when he said, well, let's figure out a way to make this happen. And he has been my absolute best cheerleader and to the point where I need somebody telling me that's not such a good idea. But he has just been amazing and to say, we had to take this really good management job we've had for 25 years and start something new that no one's ever done and there's no blueprint to do. So I'm glad that my big conversation came with him because that he is the instigator and sometimes provides content for lessons on professional etiquette, but he has been such a good support and so that was really my thing is, if you can pick, what world you want to live in and that's what I did.

{( speakerName('A') )}

We all have choice, don't we, Kristi? So what have you noticed that's been the biggest difference since shifting from a corporate job to running your own business? Has it been your own sort of central happiness? Has it been freedom? Has it been all of those things?

{( speakerName('B') )}

It has. And I think with teaching etiquette and I live in a fairly small town, but when people know that, or people even don't know that, I feel like I need to be portraying that at the drive through, at the restaurant, at the grocery store. And it is a bit of a burden to hold yourself up to that. But I can't tell you how integrating that just in my day to day, just completely rewires your brain to look for the positive things. And people say, oh, you see that person? They look like somebody had made him mad or something. It's like, what? I don't really see that. I saw the guy behind him that was smiling and looked like he was having a fantastic day. And so that's the biggest thing, is that it's just rewired from kind of being television news based, where the worse it is, the longer the time we talk about it and the higher up it goes in the show. And to this point where none of that matters, it's important you should be aware of it. But in my day to day interactions, it just is so nice to try to be the nicest person in the room.

{( speakerName('A') )}

Was it strange going from journalism into this positive, polite place all the while? It must have felt a little surreal.

{( speakerName('B') )}

It was. I had planned to do it full time eventually, but kind of got a speed up in that. And I think people will think professional etiquette. Is that still a thing? Are we still doing that? And I said, well, yeah. What you're trying to say? You're worried about me? Don't be worried about me. I did some research before I started this. I think it's needed.

{( speakerName('A') )}

Yeah. I'm not teaching girls to stand and walk with books on their head.

{( speakerName('B') )}

People ask me to do that. Teach people to walk in heels. And I say, first of all, I would have to learn to walk in heels. And I said, I'm not that kind of etiquette. I'm the kind of. Practical day to day business. Definitely not using this to make ourselves look better fancier or anything like that. In fact, that's the rudest thing that you can do. But it was definitely a change. But it's been so positive. And I don't want to say I wish I would have done it sooner, because I think that it all happened in perfect timing. When I said that I was doing it, people said, oh my gosh, you're perfect for this. And I said, well, okay. How should I take that? But I think it is a compliment.

{( speakerName('A') )}

Yeah, I would. So if you could get the world to do one thing, that would be to stop cussing. I'm guessing?

{( speakerName('B') )}

That would be up there. But I think just give people the benefit of the doubt and assume the best in people. I think that so many of our bad Internet actions, we're packing everything from our day or maybe our childhood or something into that one interaction. Just assume the best of people. And I think that would help a lot too.