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Welcome to Real People Real Impact, the podcast where we talk to people in the Esu world that are actually doing things, not just talking about them. I'm your host, Qayyum, also known as Q.

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At the end of the day, I want to know that my money is not causing any harm like today. I know it is, but the idea is really to see how it will not be. So I think that working with those enterprises, with those companies, from the private sector, from institutional financial institutes, with the government to really see how impact is in the heart of the things.

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So welcome to the Real People Real Impact Podcast. So today we have Hilla on the line who's a senior product manager at the Israeli Forum for Impact Economy. We started talking a few months ago and I found the conversation really interesting, which is why I wanted you to come back on. So welcome, Hilary.

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Thank you. Thank you for hosting.

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So before I butcher your entire background and all the things that you've done, I would love for you to sort of give our audience a background on who you are and what you do today.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(83850) )}

Okay, cool. So I'm Hila, I live in Israel, in Tel Aviv. I work today as a senior project manager at the Israeli Foreign Impact Economy. I'm also a Ta at the Raichman University in Halcivia in a vertical on real estate innovation and entrepreneurship. Really not connected to what I do daily with impact investing, but it sort of was an opportunity to engage with entrepreneurship in academia. So I caught on the opportunity. And I actually also have a podcast about career, career development, the workforce today. Yeah, that's about it.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(131748) )}

That's awesome. We'll definitely put a link to your podcast, and I feel like I'm sure everything somehow relates to another. Right? Even though things do seem disparate, I always find that whatever I do somehow ties into everything that we're doing on a daily basis. So the Israeli Forum for Impact Economy, what exactly is that and what's your role within there?

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So the Israeli Forum for Impact Economy is an organization, a nonprofit, that is an umbrella organization working to connect convenient catalyze multi stakeholder partnerships and collaborations to bring Israel impact ecosystem with various national and international players from private sector, public sector, social sector, all that are committed to raise more significance and awareness to impact investing, sustainable investing, and to address market challenges to foster more innovation that would tackle social and environmental problems and also produce economic value. So we are basically two and a half people. It's me and the CEO, Vanessa Kachalinski. And we have a very wide set of board members, about 23 from various sectors, really from finance, from exgovernment, private sector social, really bringing their minds and expertise to really see how we can promote more impact. So we mean working with enterprises, with startups to see how they can leverage their product or even for their company to be more responsible, more transparent towards society and business, and also work with policy makers to see how we can transform regulation, to be more leaning towards impact investing and help those startups, and also see how government themselves can measure their impact, their work, their connection with the industry. And we do a lot from raising awareness by different courses, different conferences, or really like even talking with people one on one, explaining what impact is, and also working with the sides of demand for capital and also supply of capital because they're really complementary to both. So working with investors to see how they can lean into more impact, see how their investments can be more sustainable socially and environmentally. So their dollar at the end of the day doesn't hurt other people, of course, in our environment, but also with entrepreneurs themselves.

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That's interesting. So you guys really kind of play the focal point for bringing a lot of different parties together, which is an amazing goal, right? I'm sure all of these people work at very different paces as well, right?

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Yes, I think it's an amazing goal, but it's also a hard work because you really tackle a lot of different interests and different angles. So, like, whatever private capital or private enterprises would think and want to address and want to target, it's not the same as social enterprises or the government. So it's really like finding the least favorite or the lower common ground that we can build on. And then to bring this one and this one and see how that can tap into and really bring everyone together in the same room. Or Zoom.

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Yeah, or Zoom. Dc is definitely more in Zoom. What was the Genesis for this idea? Because I know Israel is a hotbed for technology innovation, and it's making such a great name for itself on a global basis. But I'd love to hear how did this get started? What was the catalyst for you guys to go and capitalize other people?

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So actually, the IfAe, the Israel Firm for Impact Economy is a new version of what's called the Israeli National Advisory Board. So in 2015, the G Eight or today the G Seven has formed an impact task force where they wanted to see how our economies can do better and how the private sector can do better as far as environment and social. And actually, from those gatherings, from those conversations, an organization was formed called the GST, the global Serum Group for impact investing, also led insured by Sir Ronald Cohen, which a lot of people in impact investing know. And the GSU was founded in 2015, is an independent global organization to catalyze impact investments in entrepreneurship, focusing on awareness, on policy, on finance. And then in Israel, the branch, the Israeli branch representing the GST was formalized by five, six people really like top notch impact investing in Israel. And during the day, they kind of felt like we need an entity, a real entity, that would really compromise the whole ecosystem and spectrum. And so work because people have initiatives, people do stuff daily. But at the end of the day, you need an entity to really operate, to move wheels?

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Totally. No, that makes 100% sense. Otherwise, it's everyone's sort of working in different silos, which is fine. That's how markets work. But this at least provides some sort of, like I said, like a focal point. So it sounds like there's like an international body, but almost these different chapters in the different countries that are sort of working in tandem. So do you get to interact with some of these other branches on a global basis?

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Yes. So over the years, the GSG has helped and supported the establishment of 33 branches that operate in 33 countries, including the EU. And even more countries are in the pipeline to be created because people, countries, professionals, different entities, really see the value of impact investing and the market it also will have that can work and operate with additional markets. At the end of the day, we feel that impact is the feature, but also, it's like, right, there a lot of companies, a lot of entities, a lot of people are starting to speak the language.

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Right.

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It's really getting traction. And we do work with a few. There is a lot of network going on. We work with the UK branch, the Dutch branch, and really a lot of support among the colleagues.

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Is there one sort of country or economy kind of leading the way? That sort of the model for impact going forward?

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I think the UK is pretty strong. I think also their national advisory board has come together to join into a new entity with a research Institute on impact investing. So I think that also leverages them because they can do the research, they have the data, they have the knowledge, we have the capabilities to also bring that knowledge into practice. What are the proper tools that we need to promote in this country, in this economy? So really, when you have the data, when you have the nitty gritty information that no one wants to read, at the end of the day, that's what you need. Yeah.

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You need people to do that underline work. Right. To make things actually happen, and then that working in tandem. You have people to not just talk, but actually build. Right. Cohesively that's super interesting. I have a million questions, but I want to take a step back for 1 second, because I know you went to school for sociology and physical science, which in a really interesting way, it sounds like it's coming too light with things that you're doing now. So I'm just very curious, how did you end up here? What was your Pots to get to if you.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(672850) )}

So I actually didn't plan to get here. It really happened.

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I don't think we plan to get anywhere, do we?

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I know exactly when you don't plan things happen, yes. So I studied I finished my degree in 2015 in the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, studied political science and sociology, anthropology. And I really, really, really wanted to go into politics. I did an internship in the Knesset, which is the Israeli Parliament. I did additional two other internship in government bodies. And then I realized that I don't want to do policy. There are days that people don't appreciate what you do because we don't see the everyday work, really every hour of the politician. We just see what they inform in the news. And there is a lot of work to do that is very important. But I felt like at the end of the day, work a lot. And then there is politics between people that influences policy. Right. And then I thought that maybe I can change more. I can make more of an influence from the outside. So then I actually had an opportunity to travel to the US. I did a Fellowship from on behalf of the Jewish Agency at a Hillel at Miami University in Ohio. There is a place like that. It's located in Oxford, Ohio. And I lived there for three years. I work with the Jewish community and also the nonJewish community on relations to Israel, on innovation, on entrepreneurship, leadership, to see really how people from different backgrounds can connect to Israel, but also to really understand there are different cultures and different people, and we need to be more mindful and open to that. For some people, I was the first Jew they met. And for some people, I was the first Israeli that they met. So there is a lot of you got to carry the flag, right? Yes, I carried the flag. I wore the flag. I wore the flag in many ways. And it was very interesting because it was also the first time for me to experience how is it to live as minority? Because most people are Joe. So you go along at Saturday, everything is closed. So that in the US, everyone around me was Christian or Muslim or atheist or evangelical. Like so many variety of cultures. It was just fascinating. And then I realized I want to go into philanthropy. And I moved back to Israel after three years. And I really had an amazing opportunity to go into a British charity that operates in Israel, has a branch in Israel called UJIA United Jewish. Oh, my God, I forgot.

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It's okay. We'll fill it in later.

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Yeah, exactly. Uji, which is an organization that connects between Jewish people, between Israel and the UK. And in Israel, they actually work on allocating donations coming from the UK, from donors. And also they have an impact investing arm. So there was the first time I actually got to be engaged with impact investing. So the idea of the program, it's called UJIA Si three social innovation in Israel. Social impacts in Israel, where the idea is to really back social enterprises, social businesses, that it's a business, it has profit, it has risk, it has everything that comes with the business. But it also has a social model. So let's say employment for women in the north periphery, underserved communities or people with disabilities or medical assistance or medical technology, anything that would relate to social issues. So there I was an analyst and also a project manager. So I worked actually with entrepreneurs to see if they fit the program, if they can get the loan or the equity, and then really to work with them once they got into the portfolio to see how they measure their impact or the parameters, the different things they need to look into and then covert hit. Right. And then Unfortunately, I had to leave. But I really do think, going back to what we first said, I didn't plan it. Things happen. And I got into the Israeli Innovation Authority, which is the body that actually invests, the government body that invests in Israel startups. And there I really, actually also had the opportunity to engage with impact investing within a government body to really see how the government promotes and also invests in impact investments. Startups that are Israel based, really from assistive technology to developing countries, energy, water, medical, Gov.

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Tech scope is so large, right?

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Yes, it's so large. And they really saw how technology can make a difference. Whatever. It's like a small device that helps hearing AIDS. It makes a huge difference. Or even like Siri, totally. We can use it to help people that are also vision impaired to engage with our society and to know what's going on. So it's really amazing to see how things evolve. And from there, I got to meet who is today my boss, where I first helped her voluntarily. I really saw the potential in what she's doing in the work of IfAe. And then at the end of the day, she offered me a position with her. And from there, we're together.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(1093660) )}

Yeah, that's a great story. It sounds like everything is sort of stacked up on top of each other. And your interaction with different organizations and getting put into impact on the investment places just in tandem with some of the things that you're doing, it just all sort of led to this right now. So going back to the forum, you mentioned that you work with startups, SMEs, government, policymakers, sort of the whole breath of stakeholders. So what are some of the tangible examples? It could be from any one of these groups. Like, what are some of the tangible things that they're trying to do to drive social, environmental, and economic value?

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Can you expand?

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Yeah, I'm just thinking. So from the startups or from the policy side, what are some policies that are potentially being explored, or what are some startups doing in the space that is sort of working towards the scald that you're talking about, any real examples that you can share?

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Okay. So I think when evaluating where Israel stands, as far as ESG, as far as impact with the world, a lot of countries in Europe, in North America, I think are more advanced in what they do as far as policies. But that actually means that we have a lot of work to do. So it's good for us. But we do see in the last few years a lot of attraction in policy towards ESG and towards more responsibility and transparency to the public. I think in the last month or so, three government bodies or government related bodies have declared their support for ESG in some sort way. So for example, the financial institutions in Israel are required today to factor ESG by the regulator and then also the banks are also instructed to disclose ESG for full transparency. And even the in addition, authority where I worked also established an east GE index for Israeli startups that are actually requesting funding for their projects or work. So there is a lot of traction. I feel like some of it is they see what happens abroad. So they see that at the end of the day, the status in Israel that would need to raise funding from international investors would need to know what is ASG like from the basis, what is SG, how does it incorporate to my business and also how to translate it?

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To start with education. Right.

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I want to invest.

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Yeah. I suppose it starts with education at the foundation. Right.

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I want education with understanding. Why me? Why does it relate to me? How can I engage with it? What are the tools that I have, what I can do, what I can't do? How can I mitigate what I do to stakeholders and shareholders? There's a lot of layers that we need to understand. Also, I feel like there are two layers of people, the professionals that speak the professional language. They know what ESG, SG, AVC, like all the acronyms, the Alphabet suits. Yeah, exactly. And then all the people they want to engage with it but don't know how. And then the people that at the end of day would engage but don't even see it in the spectrum. So the professional also need to learn how to open the conversation and the dialogue to bring in those people that have the interest and then they would maybe spur some interest in those that don't even see them. The spectrum.

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Yeah. I think that's kind of the whole point of this podcast as well is finding people that are not just talking about things but actually doing things. Right. So like, stop talking and start building. And I think it is a combination of getting these different ecosystems together to actually make things happen, educate people and then give them the tools. Right. Like you mentioned in the UK, different research arms, working with other people to do the research to make things happen. So another question I had was it's a lot of different things to manage, like a big scope? How will you ultimately track success in the impact economy in Israel? Is there specific measures that you might look at, or is it just take things as they go and see the different opportunities that come up?

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So I think we are looking at two ways. One is short term and one is long term. So long term, when you really want to do a deep system change, then it's a long term situation. You can't expect people to change or to change their practices today or tomorrow or even in a year from today. Like with Covet, it took us time to understand, okay, we need to stay at home, but really stay at home. And that's like, say we're staying at home. Like go and go to the bar downstairs and hang out with friends. We actually learned our ways. What does it mean to be in quarantine and all these and wear masks and all these measures? So it does take time. And looking at the other side is what can you gain in a short term project? So we do work on both angles, and I feel like it's really smart because sometimes you also need quick wings. Yeah.

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I was going to say yes, quick wins to get people excited and keep the momentum going. Right. I think the momentum is a big part of this.

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Yeah, I think it has a large part of it. And also to keep people interested and also those engaged. For me, when I started in impact investing, I spoke with people and they had no idea what I'm saying, whether those ideas that I'm sharing, like, are you from the future? Like, what do you want from me? But then today. Oh, yeah, ESG. Yeah, sure. Like SDG, the UN and all that long term and short term. And we already started working on some things. So with awareness, you need to start really talking with the people that are not engaged with this world to see what are the barriers for them and then see how to mitigate that and also work with those already engaged. Like, see, okay, where can you even go above that? How can you even be better? How can you be bigger? How can you expand what you do? Like, different elements. So some of the things that we do is, for example, an ESG course for investor relations in public traded companies. There Israeli to really get them in the world of ESG, but also give them the tools of what they need to know tomorrow to start building an ESG strategy to their business or see how to mitigate that to their board and also conferences, meeting people face to face to really see what we can help them.

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Yeah, that makes sense. And so I think the last question I'm going to ask you here is, let's say it's like we're looking 50 years in the future and Israel is like the model for impact and innovation globally. What do you think you did to get there? Can you expand if we look in the future and if we just went 50 years in the future and Israel was one of the most well known countries from an impact and innovation standpoint, theoretically, what might have happened to get you guys there?

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I see. What a dreamy question. I know that's the one that make you think everything that you want, how do you achieve it? Interesting. So if you like first, I would imagine that in the future, in Israel, as far as impact investing, there wouldn't really be a difference between classic investing and impact investing. Like whatever you do with your money as a consumer or an investor. And also, by the way, even if we don't invest in startups, we already have investments like our pension funds, right? There are investments actually our whole life work. At the end of the day, you will earn it when you're older. But at the end of the day, I want to know that my money is not causing any harm like today. I know it is, but the idea is really to see how it will not be. So I think that working with those enterprises, with those companies, from the private sector, from institutional financial institutes, with the government to really see how impact is in the heart of the things. So it's not only money and it's not only the return that is financial and like marked with a dollar or Shekel or whatever currency, but also there are people behind it and there is the environment behind it. So I feel like the organization itself will grow. A lot of people I see nowadays are looking for positions that they actually affect. Like you're not already sitting in an office just selling a product for whomever that would use it and then maybe share like or whatever it is, but really make a difference in your day, but also on other people's. And I think that there would be a lot of work with really market education. I imagine people would working in startups, there would be ESG. I don't know if it's an officer or an impact officer in a lot of companies that would really see how impact is an additional model to their business model or even marketing model, whatever it is. So I feel like employment would be a really strong element that we also want to work in. And I also myself want to work on. I talk to a lot of people about it, how to get in the ecosystem, find something that would also mean something. And there would be a lot of hard work to really move capital. I think capital is everywhere and capital would keep being everywhere. But it's also knowing how to navigate investors and the banks to really use their capital in a wise way that we won't lose. I mean sometimes you lose.

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But of course, but then we heard from other people as well. Like if you can make those sustainable choices and sustainable investments the obvious choice, the choice that just makes the most sense, then we can get closer to sort of not separating the two different types of investment over time. That's super interesting. Well, you brought a wealth of knowledge onto the podcast here today and I think it's been really interesting to hear more about that. And so one thing I wanted to ask is how do people find you? I know you have a podcast, LinkedIn where is the best place for people to reach out if they do want to have a chat with you?

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Yes. So LinkedIn Facebook Instagram my podcast is called Bonin Karia, which is in Hebrew but yeah, you can send me in there and also you can share my email.

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Awesome. Thanks so much for coming on and it's been a pleasure.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(1887330) )}

Thank you.