4 Money Experts Explain How to Get Your Money Sh*t Together

Published by Everyone's Talkin' Money podcast
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Welcome to everyone's talking Money podcast. I'm your host. Shauna games. There's no judgment, no dumb questions, just smart conversations about you and your money. So come on in in and grab a seat. Everyone is welcome here.

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If you're wondering.

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Yeah, what do I need to do to get my money shit together? You are in the right place. This is a very special episode that was recorded live just a few weeks ago on the Fishbowl app with some of my very favorite guests, soon to be your favorites. In this live conversation, I talked with Amanda Holden, our investing guru, aka Dumpster Doggy, and the creator of the invested development course. Rachel Richards, the queen of passive income and author of Money Honey. Jacqueline Twili, the master negotiator, CEO of Zero Gap and author of Don't Leave Money on the Table. And finally, Whitney Hanson, money coach extraordinaire and host of the Money Nerds podcast. I mean, your mind is going to be blown in this conversation. There is so much to learn and take away one small disclaimer before we dive in. This was a live recording on an app, so there are some occasional mic noises, et cetera, but we've done our very best to smooth those out so you can sit back, grab your favorite beverage, and listen to these amazing women to spend some life changing money wisdom.

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Let's jump into things. We have so much to cover tonight. Again, welcome to this special live recording of my podcast and Millennial Money. And in case we haven't met, my name is Shauna Compton Game. I'm not only the host of the show, I'm a money wellness expert, an entrepreneur. I tell everybody that I am allergic to fluorescent lights. I'm a teacher, a speaker, a writer, and a recovering certified financial planner. So the idea behind this live podcast is to share all the things that you should be doing with your money without all of the overwhelm or stuffy talk. And again, we have such a great conversation. We have some powerhouse female money experts all in different niches, which is definitely the thrust of this episode. So we've got experts from passive income to real estate, to investing, to money foundation negotiation, career expertise. So a lot of stuff here on how to get our money shit together. And we're going to do our best to leave some time at the end. So if you have a question, feel free to just kind of sit tight there, unless there's just something really burning or if you want to DM any of us a question, maybe you don't want to ask it out loud, please feel free to go through during the podcast. But I want to get this started. So I'd love for each of these amazing women to introduce yourself and tell us what is your money superpower? If you had the name your Superpower, what would that be? And Wendy, do you want to start us off?

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I would love to. I'm so thrilled to be here. My name is Whitney Hanson. I am host of Applied podcast called The Money Nerds, where I get to interview really interesting and cool people and learn a little bit about their secrets to financial success. I myself am a money nerd. I paid off $30,000 in ten months, started helping people for free in Starbucks, and eventually that led to my business. I'm really excited to share some of this with everybody tonight. My Money Superpower. I had a really hard time coming up with what I'm not going to lie. So I would say I am very lighthearted when it comes to money. I don't take it too seriously.

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I think that's an amazing superpower. Really? Let's hop around. So. Rachel, Amanda, Jacqueline, anybody take it?

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Yeah, I'll go next. I'm Rachel Richards. I'm a former financial adviser and two times bestselling author. And I was able to retire at the age of 27 with over $15,000 per month in passive income. I built a real estate portfolio to 38 units by the age of 27. And I'm an expert in self publishing, real estate investing, passive income. And my superpower is making the topic of money sassy and fun and simple and working with female millennials in a way that's not overwhelming for them.

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I love that, Rachel. I'm Jacqueline Swilly, based in Dallas, Texas, and my life's mission is to eliminate the gender wage gap. And I do that through teaching women how to negotiate and supporting women leaders in maledominated industries. And if you all hear me say you all a couple of times, that's because I grew up in Louisiana and it's just in my blood. My money. Superpower is negotiation. I firmly believe if you don't ask, you don't get. And so negotiation is that super power that helps me to use my money as a tool to help me do more things in this.

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I love that. Jacqueline. So, hi, everybody. My name is Amanda Holden, and I also have a background in investing. Specifically, I used to work for an investment portfolio manager. Excuse me. And so my job was working with a lot of high net worth clients, and ultimately I decided that helping rich men get richer kind of made me want to die inside. And so I ended up quitting my job, starting over, starting my own business, which is called Invested Development, where I teach young women to invest, or really, I teach anybody to invest who has felt left out of these conversations, because so often these conversations are reserved for people who are already wealthy, who are already in the rooms where this stuff is being discussed. Some of you may know me as Dumpster Doggy on Instagram. That's where I do most of my free investing education, but the business is called Invested Development. My money superpower is very similar to Rachel's. My Money Superpower is breaking down complex or dusty topics and making them super fun. So that's my money superpower.

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I think that's amazing. And you guys, I'm really in awe of all of you. You are so amazingly talented in what you give to the world. Your expertise and your knowledge is just super awe inspiring. And I think particularly when we talk about money, I mean, this is definitely something I really have a strong effort of doing on my show Millennial Money. Is there's a lot of talk, I should say, when it comes to money, you should do this. You shouldn't do this. This is good, this is bad, and it feels really confusing. There's a lot of myths out there about money, and I want to throw it out to you because I feel like you guys will all have some really good, strong opinions on this. But if there was one money myth, maybe something that burns deep down inside of you that you would want to debunk for us tonight, like something that we can just flip on its head and look at differently from a different lens, I'm curious what that would be. And I have a feeling, Amanda, that you have some big things that burn deep down inside. Do you want to start us off?

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How did you know?

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Shaunna? I just had a sinking feeling.

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How did you know? So I was thinking about this, and I have I have an answer that is both logistical and then I have another one that is more emotional and spiritual. And so actually, let's start there. So, the biggest money myth that I would like to dispel is that you have to be obsessed with money to be good at it. Because right now. Especially with social media. Especially with a real uptick in this encouragement. Specifically for women. But really for anybody to take control of their financial lives. We're getting people. We're encouraging people to take control. Which is good. But I do believe that it can sometimes veer into feeling a little bit like you have to be obsessed or you have to be thinking about it every single day of your life. Which is actually a deterrent for those who aren't may be intrinsically motivated by money or maybe who don't want to spend their days counting their coins. And that's actually part of my motivation for becoming an educator in this space that I am not personally obsessed with. But what I am obsessed with is the idea of how we can use money as a tool to create a really cool life. And that is something that you can be good at with the right systems, and you truly don't have to be thinking about it every single day. So that would be my number one money myth really quickly. My logistical one that I just would love for everybody in the whole world to understand is that a 401K is not an investment. A Roth IRA is not an investment. They are bank accounts that hold investments and we can come back to that. But from an investment standpoint, that would be my money myth to dispel, right?

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So it's about creating this balance, right, where obviously we can't say that money is not important. Obviously we know that's how we live our lives, but we need to create this balance, and we don't all need to be math experts, right? We don't all need to have this amazing experience and education that you have. There are ways that we can, in a word, get our money shit together and not feel like we have to focus on money. Twenty four seven. I love that. Anybody else want to jump into this? Anyone else have a burning money miss you want to get rid of tonight?

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Yes, I do. I love this question, by the way, so thank you for asking. So one of the money mess I talked about and by the way, I mean, I love what you said about the Roth IRA and the four one K are not investments. Those are accounts. Yes. So I just want to check that. But one of the ones I talk about all the time is the way that we save for retirement. So the way that we traditionally save for retirement, I call it the nest egg theory. This is where you're working for 40 years, nine to five job. You're saving up as much money as you can so that you can accumulate this nest egg. That way, when you retire, you live off of that for the rest of your life. So that used to work really well. It did. It worked fine. But the thing is, times have changed, and that just doesn't work the way that it used to. So, for example, millennials and Gen Z and just young people in general, we are burdened by student loan debt. The cost of college have ballooned, and that's been a huge burden for our generation. Also, pensions are a thing of the past. That's not something that we see anymore. And the most frightening thing is that the Social Security Trust Fund is projected to be fully depleted by the year 2035. So we can't even necessarily count on that anymore. So this whole idea of being able to save up a ton of money and retire is not as practical as it used to be. And there are studies that show that millennials will need to accumulate at least $2 million by age 65 in order to retire. Now, I don't know about you guys, but I just, like, I don't know many multimillionaires, so to think that every one of us is going to need to come up with 2 million, it just feels pretty overwhelming and pretty daunting. So that's where this new approach to retirement comes in. I'm all about passive income, creating multiple streams of income. And to me, passive income is money that is earned with little to no ongoing effort. Is it a get rich quick scheme? No, absolutely not. It definitely takes time or money to create. But the epiphany I had a few years ago is that once your passive income exceeds your living expenses, you're retired, you're financially independent. And so I thought that coming up with five or six or $8,000 a month in passive income sounded a lot easier than trying to save up $2 million by age 65. So that's what I started doing and started working towards. And I do think that passive income makes early retirement attainable for anybody and everybody. So that's the money myth that I want to turn on its head.

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So, Rachel, I have a couple of follow up questions. Talk a little bit about because we hear this idea of passive income a lot, and you and I both know the power of cash flow, like having money coming in your bank account every month, is amazing. That's how we pay for things, how we live the life we want to live, versus always having assets that are kind of tied up, if you will. We can't really live off those. So passive income for sure, and cash flow is the name of the game. But talk us through some ideas of passive income. What do you do for passive income, and how can we think about maybe creating some passive income ourselves?

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Yes, so I get that question a lot. There's so many passive income streams out there. I used to think that rental property investing was the only way, but then I became obsessed with passive income. So I identified 28 total passive income streams. I do think that rental property is one of the best ones because there are so many benefits. It's not just the passive income or the cash flow. You have the equity build up, the potential appreciation, the tax benefits. So I think that is always a really solid choice. But there's tons of other things. So royalties from self published books, for example. I make between five and ten grand a month in profits from my two self published book, and it's books, and those are very passive income streams. Also, if you have an online course, something that you make once, but that you can sell over and over again, that would be another passive income stream. There's also coin operated machines, so things like owning a Laundromat or just owning a coin operated washer and dryer that you're able to put into an apartment complex, for example, and then you earn profits that way. So I could go on and on, but that's just to give you a couple of ideas, right?

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I love that. What about Jacqueline Whitney? Either of you have any birding miss?

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Yes, this is such a good question, shaun, I thank you. And Rachel filling all these tips. I hope everyone else is taking notes because I do have my notebook out. So the biggest money that I want to burn specifically for women is that if I work really hard and keep my head down, somebody's going to notice it. They're going to give me a promotion or a raise. So research shows that women who don't negotiate, starting with their first job offer, stand to lose over a half a million dollars over the course of their career. Now, there's a couple of factors that contribute to that, but the biggest one is compound interest, which is a friend to us all. So what I see is that as I work with women and I help them to strengthen their negotiation skills, is that they think that they have to wait for the perfect time. I have to wait until this, that, or whatever, fill in the blank until I can negotiate for myself and really negotiate from a place of significant confidence. So throw that myth out the window. You can start negotiating where you are today. You don't have to wait until a perfect time. As long as you're adding value, you have to learn how to communicate that value and speak to the value you add in a very confident way. And from that place of value exchange, you're able to negotiate for the top dollar. So that's one of my favorite myths to debunk, and negotiation is my jam. Shauna, I love talking about it. I can talk about it all day long.

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Yes. And that is a crazy statistic. You just throw it out. Jacqueline, that's a lot of money. Every time you talk about that and share that stat with me, it just absolutely blows my mind. So I'm so thankful that people like you are there helping us all negotiate for really, the money we deserve. It's so important. Well, Whitney, last up to you, certainly not least, is there any money myth you just want to throw out tonight?

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Yeah, let me pull up my laundry list. No, I'm sorry. One of the biggest myths that I wish somebody would have told me much earlier is that there's more than one way to approach finances. There's not a singular seven step system that's going to work for every single person out there. And that was one of those things where I think so many of us bought into this idea of if I just go to college and get a good degree, and then if I just get this job and if I just go back to school, then make more money, if I only do these things, then my finances are going to be perfect. If I just pay off my debt this specific way, my life is going to be better. And after talking with so many people from a coaching perspective and from the podcast, I'm convinced that there isn't just one way. It's really going back to what works for you specifically. And if that means paying off the debt with the highest interest rate, great. If that's the snowball approach, awesome. If that is living on a budget, cool. If budgets don't work for you, that's okay too. But I think there's so much misinformation and pressure if you have to do a system a certain way, and if you don't do that, it's wrong. And that is such a myth. It's such a giant load of crap. We've all been sold this, but it doesn't work. We're all nuanced people. We all have very specific dreams and goals for our life. And so I think just giving yourself permission to be okay with there's more than one way to do things.

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I really love that, Whitney, because this is called personal finance, right? It's personal and so it's unique to us all. And that's also, I think, what makes money difficult too, because there is not necessarily the straight ten step checklist that we all go through. And if we all go through that, suddenly we're gold. It's really different for all of us. And I think what's amazing about all of your specialties is you all have different areas that you've been able to really change your life, financially speaking, and I think that there's just so much value in that. And OK, so we've just kind of lightly scraped the service here. We've talked about some of these money missed, but I really about 20 minutes and I want to roll up our sleeves and get smart. Talk about some tips that we can really share. Everybody listening. Powerfully. Help us get our money shit together without feeling overwhelmed. So now that we've debunked some of these myths, let's fill in some of these blanks. What do we practically do? And you all I know are going to have some super amazing tips. Rachel, we've already kind of just lightly again scraped the surface on this, but do you want to dive into this?

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Yes, I would love to. And gosh, these tips. You guys are so amazing. All the women on this speaking today. So anyone listing, by the way, if you tap any of our profiles and you can push View profile and then find us and follow us on Instagram or LinkedIn or wherever. So make sure you do that, because Jacqueline, Amanda, Shauna, Whitney, they're all dropping gold nuggets here. So I would say a tip for someone to get their money shit together without overwhelm is to just start with the basics. So start with tracking your expenses for one month. This will be the most eye opening thing that you can possibly do. I think it was Dave Ramsey that said, a budget is simply telling your money where to go instead of wondering where it went. When you're not tracking your expenses, you don't know where your money is going, so you're just left wondering. So I'll tell you an embarrassing story. Even though I'm supposed to be like a finance guru, so I probably shouldn't.

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Admit this, but no, we love these stories.

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The first month that my husband and I did this, we realized we spent over $900 in groceries that month just for two people. And that's not even including restaurants. $900 for groceries for two people? That is more than some people pay for rent or their mortgage. So that was shocking to see, but it definitely motivated us to realize, hey, there's a huge opportunity here. I feel like I see far too often people focusing on these areas where maybe they can save $7 a month on a subscription or cut back on their coffee, and certainly those things are good, but if you look at the biggest areas where you're spending, those are your biggest areas for opportunity. So focusing on your housing, your transportation, and your food bill, those are typically the three biggest things. So that's all I would do is just track your expenses for one month. You will naturally be motivated and want to put in a budget in place after that.

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So, Rachel, do you have any tips? Like, what's the easiest the easiest non stressful way to track what you're spending?

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In my opinion, it's using Mint. I'm a big fan of Mint. It's a free website and app and platform. And basically with Mint, you link all of your bank accounts and credit cards, and it pulls all of your transactions into one location. That way, you can categorize things. You can see where you're spending your money. So the easiest way to do it is just to set up an account on Mint, link everything, and it will do all the work for you over the course of a month. Then you can just log back in and see where you spent everything.

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Yeah, that's such a great tip to just share a short story. I was working with a client probably about ten years ago when I was practicing certified financial planner, and they couldn't figure out how to buy a house. And so I said, okay, well, let's look at your bank statement, and let's see where money is going. And we went down some categories, and we got to eating out, and they thought they were spending about $500 a month eating out. But when we look back at the past three months, they had been spending, like, $3,500 eating out. And so it's crazy how our minds can trick us into thinking that we're spending money at a certain level, that we really want to believe that how much money or how little money we're spending. But when we look at the numbers, just like you're saying, I mean, that's the reality. And that gives us the control point, because then we can make decisions about our money from a place of really knowing what's going on. So. I love that tip. Anybody else want to kind of dive in here and roll up your sleeves?

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Sure, I will. So I completely agree with Rachel. That the first thing that. Anybody should be doing is tracking your spending. I personally do not like using apps. I don't really like using the computer anymore than I have to. So I personally journal when I want to track my spending, when I want to make sure that I know what exactly I'm spending my money on, I actually just do it with a pen and paper. And so if you're on this call and you've tried to use Excel or you've tried to use Mint and it's not working, try just using a pen and paper. It works a lot better. For me, it feels more like journaling. And actually, one of the benefits of doing it this way that I actually thought was quite sweet, was that it actually made me really grateful for everything that I had done, because you kind of look back over the course of your week and you're like, oh, I had already forgotten that I had coffee with that friend. Or I had already forgotten that I bought this thing that I really did love because I think we're so used to just I was going to say swiping our debit cards. But now nobody's going out, just punching in our credit card numbers into a shopping cart. And spending is so frictionless that we often forget what it is that we're spending our money on. And so for me, journaling works, and that's a really great first step. Tracking your spending is different than budgeting because it's too hard to create budgeting categories when you don't even know what you're spending on food in the first place. So don't even worry about giving yourself categories at first. Just try to understand who you are and where your money is going. That's the first step. And then to add to that, very generally when we're talking about first steps for getting financially organized, I call it your financial order of operations. Generally, what we're talking about is knowing where the money goes, like Rachel and I have been discussing, and the next, it's paying off those credit cards. So if you currently maintain a credit card balance, you're likely paying a rate of interest on that credit card that is quite exorbitant and really there's not going to be a way that you can invest in order to make up for what you're bleeding out in credit card interest. And so if you are somebody that has a credit card balance on this call today, no stress, no shame, but that might be a really good goal to walk away with, is trying to eliminate that balance. And then third, and you can work on this concurrently with the other two goals that we've discussed, is building up a cash cushion, building up that emergency fund. Whether you call it your own shit stash or your fuck off fund or your emergency money, whatever you want to call it, if the last year and a half has taught us anything, it's that taking care of ourselves right now and making sure that we have some money that we can tap into in the event of an emergency is really important. And never feel bad about prioritizing having that cash.

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That's amazing. Amanda and I want to kind of follow up with you because you are our investing guru on this. And I mean from cryptocurrency and bitcoin and GameStop and like everything in the investing world that we've heard over the last year and a half, it feels like so many people have kind of a case of FOMO feeling like they should have gotten in the market or they didn't get in, or they don't know what to do or when to get in. How do we approach investing from a place of confidence, a place of strategy? How do we put that in as another puzzle piece to all of the other amazing things that you talked about? Sure.

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Well, you're right and that we are in some wild, wild west times when it comes to investing. And really the most important thing to remember about portfolio management and investing is that, honestly, good investing is breathtakingly boring. What you are trying to do is slowly buy assets that you think like slowly buy assets over time, usually over long periods of time that you will think will increase in value over even longer periods of time. If you are investing from a place of FOMO, like you said, Shauna, or desperation or greed or the desire to make a quick butt, you are going to be met with commensurate results. You are going to be met with results that you would expect from investing from a place of greed instead of a place of thoughtful strategy. And so don't get swept up in the headlines. It's certainly okay to take some risks if you want to take some risks. For example, I do invest in cryptocurrency, but it makes up a very small overall percentage of my overall investment strategy. It's less than 1% of my total investment holdings at this point. And so why do I hold it? Well, I hold it because I don't want to miss out on something big. But that being said, it is extremely speculative at this point. And so any money I put into cryptocurrency is money that I have to assume that I could lose. Because the reality is nobody knows where crypto is going to be ten years from now. Now, people often interpret that as me saying that I don't think that cryptocurrency.

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Or the I think we might have just lost you.

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There you go.

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You're coming back to us, Amanda.

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Oh, no. I'm so sorry. Can you hear me now?

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Well, the point is, what I'm not saying is that cryptocurrency is not exciting. But what I am saying is that it's highly speculative. And so it's like gambling. It's like betting $1,000 on black at this point, essentially. And so if you're trying to do the more tried and true things to build a portfolio strategy. And generally what we're talking about is we're talking about the stock market, although it's a mix of stocks and bonds and then potentially some real estate holdings. And so, with the stock market, if you're just trying to get started in the easiest way possible, if you want to start building a nest egg, then doing something like a RoboAdvisor, like betterment is the easiest way to get started. Now, that's not necessarily what I do. I build my own portfolio. I have a portfolio that is invested primarily in index funds, which does take a little bit more know how. And so you can either do it yourself like I do, I use Vanguard as my bank, I purchased my own index funds, or you can pay betterment to purchase the index funds for you, which is a totally fine way to get started. If you feel like you've just been sitting on your hands looking for the inspiration to get started, you don't exactly know where to start. Then using an automated service like a veteran is a fine way to start, but then just go make sure that you understand what it is that you're investing in so that you can be a good investor and you can be a good steward of those investments as well.

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2190050) )}

I love that.

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And what all of you are talking about is really being intentional, like having some intentionality behind your money and the goals and the life you want to live. There's an actual plan behind it all. So, Whitney, you are really like a jack of all trades. There are so many amazing things that you do and so much knowledge you have. What would be some of your money stops to help us get our money shit together?

{( speakerName('C') )} {( convertTime(2216150) )}

Yeah, I've got a couple more holistic and one very practical. So it still to this day amazes me that I come across people that have not automated a lot of their finances. Like, blows my mind. Savings should be automated, investing can be automated, bill pay and nobody got time to write a check. I don't know why we're doing that in 2021, but we've still see that. So that's the more practical is if you haven't automated, make sure you do automate. Now, I understand sometimes we don't automate because we're truly living paycheck to paycheck. I can't automate this bill because I actually don't know if I'm going to have enough cash to cover that bill.

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That happens.

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And so the best thing to do is try to get a little bit ahead on your bill so that doesn't become an issue, but automate your finances. And then from a more emotional standpoint, these are little mindset hacks that work really well for me. So the first one is recognizing that we trade our time for money. All day long, we go to work, hopefully we like our job, but maybe we don't.

{( speakerName('F') )} {( convertTime(2275114) )}

Who knows?

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We're trading our time for money. We go sit in a chair in order to get money. Money is just the currency that we then use to buy whatever the heck it is. A car, a house, a dinner out. So if you understand that, if you understand that we're just trading time for money, it helps you reframe some of those purchases. So I play this game with myself, and I don't know if this is healthy or unhealthy, but this is what I do. I will go and I will look at maybe I'm thinking about going to dinner somewhere. I will look at that dinner and say, hypothetically, let's say you make $100,000 a year. If you divide that by two, it's a little money hack. It's $50 an hour, roughly. So if one dinner out is going to cost you $50, it's going to take me 1 hour of my life to pay for that dinner.

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Is it worth it?

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And so it helps me pause, and sometimes it's worth it where I'm like, you bet, I need happy hour. And sometimes I really don't. And that's okay, too, but that's a little mindset tip that helps me. And then my last tip to help everybody not get overwhelmed and at least get your finances in order is pay very close attention to your emotional triggers. So many times we spend money from an emotional standpoint and we don't even realize we're doing that. And so pay attention to when you spend money. You don't have to judge yourself, but just note it.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2357204) )}

This is interesting.

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I'm bored at work, so I started going on Amazon and buying BuzzFeed best dresses that you need for the workplace. That's fascinating. That's a boredom trigger. But the more you can see, am I spending money from a place of avoidance or from a place of fulfillment? It helps you make better decisions overall for your finances. But those are my three tips.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2378782) )}

I love it. That's such great advice. Well, we're switching things up a little bit, Jacqueline, with you, because you're all about our career, negotiating what we're worth. And so many of us are really not earning what we're worth, no matter if we're working in a corporate environment, we're running a business ourselves. When we talk about females, that's a whole other area. We tend to just undervalue ourselves altogether. So what would be some of your tips? Really help us get our money together to think differently about our value, about our worth, and that ultimately then hopefully skyrockets us in our career and what we're earning.

{( speakerName('E') )} {( convertTime(2420390) )}

Really awesome question, Shauna. So the way I like to think about it is Latte. It's an acronym that I use to negotiate. When you think about your worth and what you're earning, it should always be tied to the value that you add, which can sometimes be confusing for people. They don't understand how to gain their professional value and put a dollar amount on that can go down a whole train. So here's a simple way that I like to tie people up to set themselves up, to recognize the value, advocate for themselves, and then negotiate. Latte is five steps. Number one, look at the details. Figure out what's the market rate? What do people get paid in your industry and your geographic area with your level of experience? And then also what are the skills that you bring that are in demand? What sets you apart from other people, and how do you add value to that organization, the team, the company? And then number two is just anticipate challenges. So when you're thinking about your value and your worth, you might get nervous talking about this, especially when it comes to a salary conversation. Whether it's a new job you're talking about a performance review, or if it's an entrepreneur talking about money, think about any challenges that can come up, and instead of running away and saying, I really hope and crossing my fingers, it doesn't come up, be prepared to have that conversation. So what I typically tell folks is I found myself in one too many situations where I have said, you know what? In that conversation, I should have said this or I should have said that. So I anticipate the challenges. Now I think through what may come up that I don't want to come up, and I think of my response. One to two responses will really put you in a position of strength because you're thinking through those elements in advance. So number three in Latte. Is think about your walk away point. And this is crucial. So you want to think about, at what point do I say, you know what? I got to pump the brakes. I can't do this now. Maybe later. But now it's not the right time. And that's very personal. It's different for everybody. So when it comes to your worth, your worth is your worth, period. But there are certain stages of your life, especially your professional life, where you may want more of this or that, and that can be influenced by if you want to commute, if you have a family, all sorts of factors contribute to that. But you have to be keenly aware of what your non negotiables are and be willing to walk away and think about that before you get into a negotiation where it's too emotional. So number four is talk it through. Now, this is my favorite part. If you've never said that your salary expectation is $120,000, you might sound like this $120,000 with a question mark on the end. And if you don't say it with confidence, you can just wrap it up and go home and you're not going to get it. So practice saying it out loud. Role play. Pull out your phone, record your body language as well as your voice. Go back and critique it. And step number five, evaluate options. That's the fifth part of latte because you always have a choice. So in that you want to objectively review the things that you want, the value you add, the value you're getting, and lay all of the facts on the table, really put the facts over your feelings when you're evaluating the options, that puts you in a stronger place to negotiate what you're worth.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2645330) )}

Those are amazing tips, Jacqueline. Every time I hear you walk through the latte, I'm like, yes. And just a follow up question for you. So we've got obviously a dollar figure.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(2658296) )}

Did you have fun?

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{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(2660384) )}

I did.

{( speakerName('B') )} {( convertTime(2660840) )}

For sure.

{( speakerName('A') )} {( convertTime(2661320) )}

I mean, talk about a panel of awesomeness. We're planning to do some more live.

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Recordings, including some in person.

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Not till 2022, but stay tuned for that. In the meantime, if you love this episode, do me a favor. Share it with friends, family members, anybody who, you know, who needs to get their money shit together. And as always, you can head to the show notes for all the links to our guests and episode sponsors.